Brexit again...

[jimbo57]

We’re still in the EU!!

 

Goodness are we?

Yet according to Mark Carney, Governor of Bank of England, George Osborne and most remoaners, the economy would collapse, unemployment would soar and rivers would freeze over if we voted to leave.

Hasn't happened, on the contrary exports are booming, unemployment is at a high, the River Trent is still flowing, ice free, and we haven't even left yet.

[Regal Beagle]

Goodness are we?

Yet according to Mark Carney, Governor of Bank of England, George Osborne and most remoaners, the economy would collapse, unemployment would soar and rivers would freeze over if we voted to leave.

Hasn't happened, on the contrary exports are booming, unemployment is at a high, the River Trent is still flowing, ice free, and we haven't even left yet.

 

Yet this whole thread is a constant cycle of "well the experts say its dead bad"

 

Maybe the remoaners are operating on the rule of averages. These experts will get one right eventually.

[For Us All]

Meanwhile failed politician and arch-remainer Sir Nick Clegg has gone to work for Facebook.

Let's hope he can get them to pay a bit more tax?😁😁😁

[For Us All]

We all know the result. We had a vote and the result was published.

 

Time to action that vote, not have another one to overrule democracy. Lets face it, brexit has fairly had a fair chance yet has it?

 

Spot on,it's a pity we didn't decide to have a rally to get another vote and get rid of the Blair government,we would have saved many lives.

[Thevalefan]

Good news today that Santander will be operating a new tech hub in Liverpool creating 2,500 jobs. And Bently taking on dozens of new staff, JCB securing record orders worldwide and unemployment is at a new low. Nearly forgot, Unilever have decided to stay in the UK as well.

I'm sure everyone will be pleased to hear all this good news.

 

Nice try Jimbo but you can't even read the article ref Santander properly. Or, you change it to suit your deluded narrative on Brexit.

 

Santander are spending £75 revamping their operations hub in Bootle. Adding 500 jobs. Santander "PLAN" to commence this project next year - IE - They're going to wait until after Brexit to make any decisions. These extra 500 jobs wouldn't be created until 2021. So, there is a huge IF over this will happen at all. It's a suggestion, not a concrete decision they've made. £75m investments are peanuts in the grand scheme of things. Osborne & Co are the real winners, if they project is done anyway. Good luck to them.

 

Dozens of new staff is nothing is it. Massive Multi Nationals like Bentley should be increasing their investments in the UK much higher than they are but are not based on the uncertainty. Bentley are German owned, it will be interesting to see the incentives the EU offers them to relocate their businesses within the EU long-term.

 

JCB - well, here's a thought - undeveloped economies with little infrastructure are generally countries in todays world that have higher levels of construction and development going on. Your hardly going to sell 1000's of JCB's to developed nations with little infrastructure work taking place. Developing markets therefore order more. The pound is currently weaker strengthening exports and allowing advantageous buying from importers. It's hardly coincidence the pound drops, Brexit looms and people take advantage. Fair play to JCB, but its not as if every other industry will benefit in the way they are. JCB have always sold globally too, nothing has ever stopped them.

 

Unilever shareholders voted against the move. The people running it would have moved it, but shareholders have opposed it. So, it will be interesting to see the result of that decision moving forward. Good news though.

 

Now, let's look at who's left already?

 

Jaguar Land Rover is set to cut 1,000 jobs due to Brexit ‘headwinds’, with the West Midlands bearing the brunt of the cuts.

 

PoundWorld was unable to secure the jobs of its 5,100-strong workforce.because of Brexit-linked inflation.

 

HSBC and UBS are to shift 1,000 jobs each from London

 

Panasonic moved HQ

 

1 in 7 EU businesses have switched supply chains from using UK companies (FT reported)

 

Lloyd’s of London: moving 100 jobs from London to Brussels; EU headquarters from London to Dublin, Ireland.

 

JPMorgan: 100s of jobs from London to Dublin, Frankfurt, Germany, and Luxembourg.

 

Barclays: 150 jobs from London to Dublin, where it will set up EU headquarters.

 

Bank of America: moving EU headquarters from London to Dublin

 

Moneygram: moving EU headquarters from London to Brussels

 

European Medicines Agency: moving from London to Amsterdam, including 890 jobs.

 

European Banking Authority: moving from London to Paris, including 180 jobs

 

EU is targeting UK manufacturers with 'sweetheart' deals, basically begging them to leave the UK for more favourable terms and better market access. Long-term implications we should seriously be worried about.

 

banks Nomura and Daiwa are already setting up EU operations in Germany.

 

And that's all I can be bothered to list.

 

I'm sure you'll all be very pleased to hear this good news.

[Thevalefan]

We can all agree with the first part.

 

I don't see brexit as the risk though. The EU is the risk and it's already gone wrong. Brexit is the fix.

 

EU has gone wrong?

 

Wonder why the likes of Japan, Canada and Singapore have all been thrashing out trade deals with them then? Maybe it could be because the EU is the second biggest economic market in the world?

 

Who know's ey?

[Thevalefan]

Not so much fear of a second referendum.

 

More a fear of our democracy being wrenched from us.

 

So you think democracy should accommodate lies and false information?

When things like "100m turks are coming UK" "NHS will get more" "We'll stop immigration" "We can trade globally" etc are spouted out - all lies, and people make decisions against what they're told... then how is that democracy?

 

Boris Johnson himself said we'd not leave customs union or single market during referendum - we're leaving both.

 

Another vote would be an extension of democracy.

 

Because you know Remain would win - you use the typical "Taking our democracy away" as the default reply.

[Thevalefan]

Sovereignty, immigration, economy, bureaucracy

 

The EU was needed 50 years ago. It isn't now.

 

Is Nigel Farage your dad?

 

Name a law you want us to make we cant

Non EU immigration is at it's highest ever

Economy is 2.5% smaller, we are now worst performing G7 nation and FDI has MASSIVLEY fallen

I'll give you that, but if you've dealt in UK business - bureaucracy is also very high and also in parliament bureaucracy is high.

[Thevalefan]

Goodness are we?

Yet according to Mark Carney, Governor of Bank of England, George Osborne and most remoaners, the economy would collapse, unemployment would soar and rivers would freeze over if we voted to leave.

Hasn't happened, on the contrary exports are booming, unemployment is at a high, the River Trent is still flowing, ice free, and we haven't even left yet.

 

£ low value

GDP shrunk 2.5%

Jobs lost

Unemployment figures are measured differently. (You just wont accept that though)

Massive uncertainty

Exports will always boom when importers can take advantage

 

As said, not even out yet. we lose 750 trade treaties in March.

 

Can you think for yourself?

[Thevalefan]

Meanwhile failed politician and arch-remainer Sir Nick Clegg has gone to work for Facebook.

Let's hope he can get them to pay a bit more tax?

 

What like the EU forced Apple to pay fair share of tax?

 

EU making new legislation to stop tax-avoidance and offshore banking (ref;paradise papers)called Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive.

 

Strange our very rich politicians are getting behind brexit after this was announced

[Thevalefan]

You'll have to try a bit harder lads to convince me otherwise.

 

Maybe trying to explain what you mean when you say things would help

[The_godfather]

Good news today that Santander will be operating a new tech hub in Liverpool creating 2,500 jobs. And Bently taking on dozens of new staff, JCB securing record orders worldwide and unemployment is at a new low. Nearly forgot, Unilever have decided to stay in the UK as well.

I'm sure everyone will be pleased to hear all this good news.

 

I'm sure they would be delighted Jimbo, but let me just correct you on a couple of points if I may so everyone is fully appraised of the news and can decide for themselves:

 

1) Santander haven't created any new jobs at all. They are investing in a new "campus" style building to replace the existing one. It will house all of their existing 2000 employees, but will have space for 500 more, in case they need to employ more people in the future. The building itself might create new jobs, but that is unknown at this stage.

 

2) Bentley have created 83 new apprenticeships, graduates and undergrads ranging from 18 months to 3.5 years. While I am all for training the next generation, those are short term/semi permanent and low paying roles. It's hardly a big investment to be lauded as evidence of a strong economy.

 

3) JCB do indeed have record sales, which is a great thing. They've also invested 50 million earlier this year and hired 1,100 new people. But look at what they say - it's on the back of global growth; that "we are now investing in increased global production capacity.” Factor in that once we leave the EU, prices are likely to go up until trade guru Liam Fox signs all of these trade deals that he hasn't yet started negotiating, and you can imagine that the worldwide JCB sites might benefit to the detriment of the UK sites.

 

4) Unemployment figures classify people that have worked 1 hour as "employed". 1 hour. Now unless they are earning 500 quid an hour, that probably doesn't give them enough to get by on, so I'm not sure that we should trust those figures so much. In fact, given they come from a government so rotten you smell the stench from halfway across the world, you probably shouldn't trust a single word they say.

 

5) Now this is an interesting one. Unilever wanted to relocate; the board was forced to back down because of serious opposition from shareholders. Not your common, garden, run of the mill shareholders, but the big city investment firms in the city. The very firms that Brexit supporters see as representative of a liberal, metropolitan elite that they voted against as ignoring their interests. (Kind of a delicious irony in there, isn't there.)

 

Let me know if you want me to do any more explanation on your behalf.

[Thevalefan]

 

Factor in that once we leave the EU, prices are likely to go up until trade guru Liam Fox signs all of these trade deals that he hasn't yet started negotiating, and you can imagine that the worldwide JCB sites might benefit to the detriment of the UK sites.

 

 

Well said.

 

This point you raise here, is what worries me the most.

 

We can't negotiate Brexit, the Govt can't negotiate between themselves and we lost 750 trade treaties on Brexit day.

 

How the hell will this Govt go across the world, which has been laughing at us now for some time with whats been going on, and get us the best deals with different countries???

 

May went to Africa to secure the trade deal we already have with them as EU members. It cost an extra £1bn to get it done.

 

Britain exported £2.4bn worth of goods to the six African countries included in May’s deal - just 0.7 per cent of the value of its exports to the EU and the rest of the world combined. So it's cost us an extra £1bn to get a deal worth £2.4bn and when you factor in giving the DUP £1bn it means that deal is worth a whopping £400m!!

[Fosse69]

Well, the easy bit is not finished after 2 years, how long will the difficult trade negotiations take? The usual 7 or 8 years? Every other country will want something more off us now we are not part of a large trading block.

[geosname]

A big march in London today, representing the 48%and supporting another vote. Retainers didn't want this mess, and I suspect that many in the 52% did not want a Hard Brexit with a no deal.

 

Can understand RB why you don't want another vote, because you know what the result will be.

 

If the vote was 52% stay to 48% leave would you want another vote as a decider?

Or would it be ok to set the bar at 75%?