Port Vale accounts given to OVF

[geosname]

Good to see trust has been restored.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using onevalefan

 

Something has to be there for it to be restored

[geosname]

I have not read them... so

 

Do they raise more questions than they answer?

 

Do they cover all the companies? [not sure how many of them there are]

[valiantsireno]

Is there an entry for cash at bank and in hand on the balance sheet? I'm probably tired and need to go to bed.

 

How long till liquidation?

[valiant steve]

Balance sheet is proof of a badly run company.

Alchemy accounts? NS bought one company and split it into two (to my knowledge) So where is the information for the other part of our football club. I notice it states that no rent was paid to Alchemy. What was the rationale in splitting the football club from the football stadium? What do the accounts for Alchemy show?

[Guppy 4 England]

Norms a bit daft. For all those who think they are in the know about accounts and trying to disect these. You have all missed the glaringly obvious problem that these accounts don't agree to the accounts submitted to companies house. Therefore these aren't final accounts signed off by smurf.

 

End of thread.

[RailwayRowdy]

Knowing what's going on behind the scenes can be quite scary. But of course we're still only going to know what the owner wants us to know. Unless you're within his inner circle I doubt anyone will ever know the whole truth until administration rears it's ugly head again. Read this information by all means, but treat it with quite a hefty pinch full of salt.

[Santa]

How long till liquidation?

Not any time soon as long as he's still prepared to throw money in.

 

It was quite late when I was looking at these last night and I probably should have gone to bed instead.

 

I can see that there's a £687k liability for deferred income in 2016/17 but only £187k cash at bank & in hand at June 16. Does that tell us that cash relating to revenues for the following season was used to plug a gap in the previous year?

[Arthur]

I have not read them... so

 

Do they raise more questions than they answer?

 

Do they cover all the companies? [not sure how many of them there are]

 

Read them, ************.

[smada]

Are we sure the catering has been brought in house?

[PVTony]

Losing money hand over fist.

More will be lost in the coming season.

Surely Norman knows this.

Why does he not cut his losses and get out by selling for what he can get.

What is preventing him?

At the continued rate of financial loss Norman will stand to lose many millions of £'s, never able to recover his loans. At the same time he will take the club into administration and none league football. Or even none existance.

[Santa]

I can see why both Synectics and Manor valued the club at no more than £1.25 million.

 

Norman's asking price seems OTT looking at these numbers, that is unless the real world valuation of Vale Park has increased massively (it won't have).

[paulmogan]

Losing money hand over fist.

More will be lost in the coming season.

Surely Norman knows this.

Why does he not cut his losses and get out by selling for what he can get.

What is preventing him?

At the continued rate of financial loss Norman will stand to lose many millions of £'s, never able to recover his loans. At the same time he will take the club into administration and none league football. Or even none existance.

If he sells now for what he has been offered he will make a loss. If he stays and improves the clubs position he may make a profit. I know what I would do in his position.

[Phil]

If he sells now for what he has been offered he will make a loss. If he stays and improves the clubs position he may make a profit. I know what I would do in his position.

 

There is no chance he will make a profit! To improve the club's position he will have to throw more money at it, which would increase his investment, and no way will he get all of that back.

[Essex Vale]

In general terms, ignoring things like depreciation the owner has increased his Directors loan account by roughly £500K in the year which in general terms is the amount of the actual loss ignoring things like depreciation. So it appears he is putting in something like £40 to £50K a month to keep us going and accruing this as a loan to him. The main questions around the Directors loan account would be to find out how it got to the level of £2.5M at Jun 2015.

 

We have lost £300K on turnover, or about £6K a week, less money coming in to the club, that is down to the management of the business and is a real worry. I suspect potential buyers will see that as an area where they can add value, I think I agree with them. Although one of the stumbling blocks with Synectics was income around the shop and that shows a mysterious new income stream of roughly £2K a week. If that shop income figure was ignored then the turnover reduction is about £500K, which hey presto is about the amount the directors loan increased by. This shows that poor management of the business has required the owner to stump up his subsidy to replace the missing turnover.

 

A good business, with existing assets around marketing, IT, finance, administration would,I am sure be able to increase turnover by an amount to make the Director's loan unnecessary. Additionally a good business (Synectics are so close) would be able to reduce costs of marketing, IT, finance etc by utilisation of their wider business resources. In sum, they could spend less to get more in.

 

A valuation of about what they have offered seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

 

 

I am also worried about the cash flow there is about £187K in the bank but the accounts appear to show that we have taken a figure around £600K in season ticket sales at the end of June. So that money has simply gone to pay outstanding bills, there is no liquidity statement here but I think cash flow should be our biggest concern right now around the viability of the business.

 

Of course the elephant in the room is the ground, its ownership and valuation and that overall director's loan account of £3M. It seems likely to me that the initial £2.5M of that loan was wrapped up in the purchase of the club and the mystery of Paul Wildes departure, and any pay off he may have had.

 

So are we any clearer? No I don't think so, we know the level of subsidy and we know that is necessary because the owner has overseen a poor business management year. With a new CEO this should improve.

[Tomo]

There is no chance he will make a profit! To improve the club's position he will have to throw more money at it, which would increase his investment, and no way will he get all of that back.

 

Exactly. Being stubborn & holding out for an ambitious sale price whilst any further 'investment' takes a back seat will only send us one way, which in turn will decrease the chance of him being able to sell for the price he wants in the first place.

 

Vicious circle, & the only way he's ever going to have a chance of getting any amount of money back is sticking enough in to put us at the top of league 1 (minimum). That, or a fan wins EuroMillions & pays him off to get rid of him.

 

I have no clue when it comes to accounts, but those figures don't look good.