Post Manchester Arena explosion - views and opinions...

[For Us All]

People try to justify their acts in many ways... in the name of god/religion being one... god doesnt pull the trigger/set off the bomb.

 

But don't they use their god as a justification to pull the trigger?

[Family Stand Terrier]

People often say that without religion none of this would happen. I don't accept that view. These scumbags are angry, warped, vile people. If it wasn't religion, it would be something else used to justify their feelings and actions.

 

I was at the arena on Friday night with my wife watching take that. Within a minute of the concert finishing we walked straight from our closest exit, and went straight out a few yards through the Victoria station exit. This creature could so easily have chosen Friday to go through with this, and left our daughter as an orphan. I don't want to be too dramatic about it, and don't want to shift any thoughts away from the victims, but from a personal point of view this has effected us in a big way.

 

People say about carrying on and not letting them win, and I totally get that, but at the moment I genuinely think that this will effect what we do as a family in the future. We'd been saying that we'd like to take our girl to her first gig soon, but now I just don't know if we'd be able to do so. The danger of course is that we could be 10 years down the line and haven't enjoyed any of the life experiences we would have done had the risk not been so high.

 

I'm getting sick of politics these days anyway, left, right, party politics crap. It's all seriously getting on my ****. At the end of the day, whatever the cause, whatever the motivation, some absolute arsewipe has intentionally killed 22, and injured many more innocent people, including women and children...babies some of them.

 

It's sickening, those poor poor people.

[Andyregs]

But don't they use their god as a justification to pull the trigger?

 

I can't understand how people can ignore the role religion plays. They believe they will be rewarded in the next life. They shout god is great before pulling the trigger. If People were setting off bombs because voices in their head told them, would we be saying it has nothing to do with mental health?

[geosname]

But don't they use their god as a justification to pull the trigger?

 

They may well do but that doesnt mean their "god" is to blame for what they did/do.

[geosname]

I can't understand how people can ignore the role religion plays. They believe they will be rewarded in the next life. They shout god is great before pulling the trigger. If People were setting off bombs because voices in their head told them, would we be saying it has nothing to do with mental health?

 

Religion and mental health are human conditions.

[Yukon]

People often say that without religion none of this would happen. I don't accept that view. These scumbags are angry, warped, vile people. If it wasn't religion, it would be something else used to justify their feelings and actions.

 

I was at the arena on Friday night with my wife watching take that. Within a minute of the concert finishing we walked straight from our closest exit, and went straight out a few yards through the Victoria station exit. This creature could so easily have chosen Friday to go through with this, and left our daughter as an orphan. I don't want to be too dramatic about it, and don't want to shift any thoughts away from the victims, but from a personal point of view this has effected us in a big way.

 

People say about carrying on and not letting them win, and I totally get that, but at the moment I genuinely think that this will effect what we do as a family in the future. We'd been saying that we'd like to take our girl to her first gig soon, but now I just don't know if we'd be able to do so. The danger of course is that we could be 10 years down the line and haven't enjoyed any of the life experiences we would have done had the risk not been so high.

 

I'm getting sick of politics these days anyway, left, right, party politics crap. It's all seriously getting on my ****. At the end of the day, whatever the cause, whatever the motivation, some absolute arsewipe has intentionally killed 22, and injured many more innocent people, including women and children...babies some of them.

 

It's sickening, those poor poor people.

 

I don't think you're being dramatic at all. Life has such small margins between good and bad. You're right, it could have been Friday or Sunday when some of my mates were there, it's a very scary thought.

 

All I'll say is, you're very lucky and fully justified to think about your family but, and it's a big but, I'm also with the people who believe in carrying on. If you/ we don't then the evil that happened claimed more than those poor souls killed, injured and traumatised last Monday.

 

I very much consider myself northern and Manchester is where I did a lot of my growing up. Being allowed into the city was a right of passage, it meant your parents trusted you to look after after yourself. Trips to Afflecks, the Corn Exchange, Piccadilly Records, the Vinyl Exchange, Split Skates etc have very fond memories for me. It's a shame that people won't let there kids do that now. I'm in my late 30's and my time was just after the IRA bomb (I know no one was seriously hurt but the damage was huge); we carried on then, we should carry on now.

 

I think it's really impressive how the city has rallied and will continue to rally.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

One of the prices we pay for living in a mainly free society is that we have amongst us a significant number who will take advantage of those freedoms for their own ends. The only sure way to stop them is to put restrictions on those freedoms but in doing so we become a less free society. That ultimately could affect all of us. We also become more like the kind of society they want us to be.

 

How far are we willing to go? Careful what you wish for.

 

Sent from my F5121 using the onevalefan mobile app

[Shropshire_Valiant]

I think it's hatred of other beliefs/religions by factions of another religion and not necessarily the preachings of the religion itself that cause conflict so hence religion gets the blame.

i.e. clearly a part/branch of islam doesn't like the western/christian way of life.

Or with Ireland for example 2 branches of christianity(catholic & protestant) fell out over the issue of whether Ireland was part of the UK or not(simplistically speaking, obviously there's more to it than that but you get the point).

[Fosse69]

He votes against all wars but why won't he condemn the IRA?

The only difference I can see is that for example in Iraq and Libya we were attempting to overthrow the rulers/government of another state, whereas the IRA were attempting to unite Ireland. Whether we agree or not is a different matter, Jaw-jaw is preferable to War-war and in Ireland`s case may be achieved in time as a result of Brexit.

[Yukon]

I can't understand how people can ignore the role religion plays. They believe they will be rewarded in the next life. They shout god is great before pulling the trigger. If People were setting off bombs because voices in their head told them, would we be saying it has nothing to do with mental health?

 

It's not religion, it's exploitation of the weak under a thin veil of tenuous interpretation. It is a mental issue, a massive mental health issue; who in there right mind would want to hurt that happy little girl or the other 21 victims? The answer is no one. It certainly has nothing to do with where a person chooses to pray.

 

These kids get their world view distorted by fu**ers like Britain First and EDL who use patriotism to justify their hate, the same way that IS use religion to do the same.

[mr.hobblesworth]

He votes against all wars but why won't he condemn the IRA?

 

Oh, here we go again He has denounced the IRA. You would know this if you watched or read the transcript of his interview last weekend, rather than relying on received lies.

[Shropshire_Valiant]

Slightly off topic from the terrorism but there is clearly a branch of some Asian/Arabic/African cultures of which muslims are a large part that believe raping and generally treating women like dirt/2nd class citizens is acceptable so they still behave like this when in western society. Again it's not all muslims and won't just be muslims that have these beliefs but there is perhaps a coralation with those that have the beliefs that lead to terrorism?

[Fosse69]

Slightly off topic from the terrorism but there is clearly a branch of some Asian/Arabic/African cultures of which muslims are a large part that believe raping and generally treating women like dirt/2nd class citizens is acceptable so they still behave like this when in western society. Again it's not all muslims and won't just be muslims that have these beliefs but there is perhaps a coralation with those that have the beliefs that lead to terrorism?

I would not have thought so, a completely different topic, women have only had the vote for a 100 years in this country for example, male dominance has been worldwide, is changing. If you wish to debate the subject start a new thread.

[cheshirevaliant]

Despite his previous badness, Gadhaffi had renounced terrorism and not been involved in it for about 10 years, and Libya was a reasonably stable country and had a leader who was prepared to work with both the US and the UK.

 

But of course, just as in Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt and Syria the USA and indeed in Libya's case NATO could not wait to start a war by fermenting the so-called ''Arab Spring' .

 

It wasn't long before Cameron was itching to bomb Libya's government out of existence and create a vacuum of power that has seen that country almost destroyed.

 

If this hadn't happened then these Libyans would almost certainly not been in Manchester and whilst I totally condemn them and ISIS in every way, if we (the West) do not look at the true causes of how this cancer in our midst has developed we will never begin to have a chance to defeat it.

 

It's far too late to say 'act hard' and 'death penalty' - how stupid to propose the death penalty as a deterrent to someone who is a suicide bomber - it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

 

NO, again we must dig deeper and the very first action should be to abolish ALL FAITH SCHOOLS - Islamic, Jewish, Catholic, Hindu or whatever and make sure children are taught about all religions and make up their own mind. Parents do not own their children and do not have any right to force a religion on them. This will infuriate some people but is something that should be done whether there are terrorist attacks or not.

 

Our children must be integrated, immigrant children must too, all faiths must mix from the earliest age to get rid of hate and prejudice, whether that hate comes from race, creed, religion or anything else. The young are the key.

 

Manchester has had a sizeable Libyan population before the Arab Spring including, it appears, this family. Other than that, I agree with pretty much all of your post.

[davidatpreston]

Classic David. I never said you did accuse me, I simply asked who is saying all Muslims are at fault. Its actually not about you all the time David despite your best efforts.

 

You are just repeating my words and trying to move it to a personal slanging match again. Not playing, better things to do.

 

Your IRA point is so strange, you bring up their religion but they didn't kill because of that, they killed because they were nationalists. What's their religion got to do with it? They might all love weetabix but that doesn't make weetabix fans terrorists.

 

It isn't strange at all and other posters seem to understand it perfectly. Terrorists need to self-justify with a 'cause' - whether religion, nationalism, Nazi-ism, the Contras, even the Isralis used terrorism to set up Israel and killed the British with bombs before 1949 - whatever. As Geo says, it isn't the religion itself that carries out the atrocities, but the blind adherence to the 'cause'.

 

It is ironic that Tony Blair, who is guilty of a terrible policy error in Iraq, actually went a long way to stopping the Northern Ireland conflict and I am no Blair fan.

At some point, talk and compromise is necessary. It seems ISIS wont talk or accept this so the very least we can do is protect ourselves, and make sure there is no next generation of ISIS by educating their children. And at all costs NOT getting involved in any more military action in Syria, Libya, Egypt a, Yemen or any other Middle Eastern country.

Repeating also, as noted by Aussie Rules too, that giving advanced weapons to maniacs like the Saudis to get dirty profits for the US (and sadly the UK)is two-faced, hypocritical and stupid in the extreme. Just as it was when the US gave stinger missiles and training and weapons to the Afghans in the 1980s and helped set up the Taliban which became Al Queda then ISIS.COLOR]/COLOR]

 

I'll elaborate, lets start with the 3,000 people in the UK who are on terrorist watch lists, lets start with the 1,000+ that the Goverment believes has been to fight for ISIS and returned to the UK. Who is teaching these people.

 

Those that are radicalised , we are too late and have to deal with it. But I have already said that the key is to stop these faith schools - mix children of all religions, and teach all religions, to ensure it cannot continue in the future. You didn't seem to want to comment on this.

 

Like I said, either their scripture is to blame or there's a significant number of evil people teaching their twisted version of islam in this country.

 

It doesn't take a significant number. Just a few, and many muslims and imams are co-operating heavily with the police and authorities, far far more than anyone teaching radicalisation. If you or anyone else takes blanket unfair action that removes that co-operation then the good work of the security services would be undone at a stroke. You know when he IRA got their biggest number of recruits? - in the weeks after Bloody Sunday, hundreds who had arguing for peaceful change in the Civil Rights movement took up arms.

 

I don't think flying a flag at half mast has anything to do with children being targeted in a hail of nuts and bolts.

 

I have to say that for such an articulate and obviously educated poster, you do seem to choose carefully which points you want to answer, and those that are tricky for you to reply to we get 'I don't follow your point' or 'It isn't relevant'. All tactical, but not very convincing Im afraid.

 

The point is that Cameron and Trump (and probably May at some point) are desperate to sell arms to, and fawn over, and legitimise the Saudi regime, mainly for greed and profit but also to stupidly be aginst the Russians, who do the same to a far lesser extent with Iran and Assad in Syria.

 

The 9/11 bombers were nearly all Saudi nationals, te Saudis are commiting war crimes in Yemen as bad as, or in somecases far worse than anything going on in Syria, and there are well-documented links between Saudi money and ISIS-related groups.

 

Therefore, lowering that flag, and all that stands for, and all the fawning and grovelling to what is one of the most despicable regimes in the world is actually helping to perpetuate the extreme form of Islamic fundamentalism that culminates in our children being maimed and killed.]

 

 

 

 

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