Personal abuse - not tolerated, users banned

[TheSage]

I'm happy with this.

I think we have increasingly seen a few posters getting carried away by their emotions and resorting to personal abuse which is, of course, totally unnecessary.

None of us has a monopoly on wisdom and knowledge. We can't be right all the time. You sometimes need to acknowledge that someone else has made a better point and let it drop. Having the final word isn't important.

99% of us on here are Vale fans and part of the same family, but you wouldn't believe it sometimes. I always say that anyone who is a Vale fan is a friend of mine - and that's how it should be.

Tolerance and respect.

Thank you.

[robf]

I'm happy with this.

I think we have increasingly seen a few posters getting carried away by their emotions and resorting to personal abuse which is, of course, totally unnecessary.

None of us has a monopoly on wisdom and knowledge. We can't be right all the time. You sometimes need to acknowledge that someone else has made a better point and let it drop. Having the final word isn't important.

99% of us on here are Vale fans and part of the same family, but you wouldn't believe it sometimes. I always say that anyone who is a Vale fan is a friend of mine - and that's how it should be.

Tolerance and respect.

Thank you.

 

Brilliant. Thank you.

[Bea Smith]

Yes, I'll hand up and have been guilty of this many times, although under severe provocation sometimes, though that is not really much excuse. I will try my best to discontinue this.

 

I do feel it necessary to point out that Mr Hobblesworth's post near the start of this thread contains a huge number of valid points, as a few other posters make a career out of belittling, provoking and insulting people in clever ways that are not actually outside your rules.

 

Twice after ignoring a certain poster for long periods, I found I was named in posts where I had no involvement on the thread, hadn't posted on it or been involved in any way whatsoever, and more recently named in a reply to one of Mr Hobblesworth's posts with the remark 'You can log off and log back on as as Bea' now.

 

This doesn't upset me as I think Mr Hobblesworth is a very genuine poster who I happen to agree with many (but not every time, as he will tell you) - but this and other tactics are used to provoke and I think are also worthy of warnings and bans.

 

I was rather more upset about 4 years ago when a user who no longer uses the forum continually accused me of being a certain V2001 board member, despite me never supporting that board or its members.

 

I also think that personal abuse at the same few public figures by the same few posters should be treated in the same way as personal abuse against posters to ensure fairness, again this is always by the same few people - time will tell if they are allowed to get away with this.

 

Another example of this was a user continually belittling and abusing the England manager Roy Hodgson by posting his name as 'Woy' on at least a dozen occasions - I appreciate this is difficult to police but when it occurs multiple times from the same person, it seems to me it is as bad as personal abuse to another user.

 

Having said all this, I will repeat what I have posted before, that the site provides superb service and information, and is an invaluable resource for Vale fans, and I appreciate the hard work that goes into it.

 

In the vast majority of cases, fairness and tolerance has been shown -though I would respectfully ask you to consider the points in Mr Hobblesworth's post which he made better than I could, and those I have made above about certain very insidious tactics used to provoke and intimidate by a small number of posters. I will make every effort to support your initiative from now though.

[Jacko51]

Firstly, I should state that in the past I have far too readily resorted to personal insults. I try not to nowadays and hardly post in the political threads as they are the ones where I found myself most tempted to round on certain posters.

 

What I would add though is, whilst personal insults generally let down the poster in question, the taunting, insidious, disingenuous and facetious posts from other members can be a huge contribuing factor. I guess these posts are nigh on impossible to censure but I find they have a far more negative impact on the forum than the more insulting comments. I realise that these posts don't breach any forum rules but it's getting to the point where I no longer feel like posting any more. When was the last time we had a decent heartfelt debate about anything Vale on here without one party trying to wilfully misinterpret or ridicule the argument rather than discuss it? It's the posting equivalent of smirking. Many (IMO) valid posts that I've left on here end up being reduced to stupid straw man arguments or debased to something far away from the original intent. Disappointment at the Chester cancellation becomes 'outrage', standing up for a player or manager is reinterpreted as 'being their love child' or even worse, whilst anyone criticising one of Norman's gaffes is painted as having some kind vendetta.

 

As I said, I think it's this rather than swearing that causes most harm to any decent threads on the forum; in fact, it may actually cause a lot of it. The fact that even Jacko had to resort to dropping an F-bomb in that awful Sentinel thread says a lot.

 

I do like OVF and genuinely appreciate all that Rob has done (and continues to do) but thought it might be worth mentioning.

 

Completely agree with that, Mr H. Can I point out, however, that I did not actually drop an f-bomb. I just typed some asterisks and left it to the imagination!

[onestepatatime]

Hope this works, have to say that my enjoyment of using this forum lately has been ruined by the constant arguing between the same people. I regularly read other forums & it's actually refreshing getting away from it all.

 

I've never seen every single detail of a football club scrutinised so closely by fans before. On other forums, people seem far more casual & optimistic in their general approach to most topics.

 

 

I'm with you Tommo on this. Recently my "enjoyment" of a fantastic forum has dwindled massively and I have questioned whether so many so called Vale fans are actually fans? I agree we ALL can moan and groan about any subject and pass opinions that others may not agree with, but recently a load of posts have been disgraceful and aimed at the poster rather than the actual content of the post.

 

I applaud Rob for this next step in attempting to re-arrange the OVF into an interesting, informative, debating, good humoured site for good old fashioned Vale Family banter. Love to you all.

[Class personified]

Great idea Rob. I am for debate but there has to be respect for the other view. Football is all about differing views and when it is your own beloved club then things can sadly get heated. Remember ultimately we all have the same goal - the best for the greatest club in the world. For me based in Sheffield, between games OVF is my link to the club. Let's cherish it and enjoy the diversity of our opinions.

[EDDTHEBALL]

I agree entirely with what Rob is doing,sum of the personal abuse has been disgusting.People are rightly or wrongly entitled to their opinion & shouldnt be slated for it.Good on ya Rob

[vale@rocks]

I thing since the voting system changed people have maybe increased there levels of displeasure with undesirable and personal remarks. This ultimately discourages users of this site. Both methods alienated users and this is a welcome and positive step.

[Spunk Trumpet]

Around 8 years ago, OVF was a superb read. Loads of great debate and discussions. Along with some of our neighbours. Tunstall Potter. Delilah. Etc. Some great posters.

But when you get certain wind up merchants wanting to ruin it then im afraid you get what you deserve.

Admin were told on many occasions years back about the idiots on here, just trying to wind folk up, and did little to bugger all about it.

Now Rob you start wielding the axe?!

Years too late mate. Gone are your good posters, or should i say more forced away, because of the WUMS.

Easily identifiable but not dealt with.

OVF is a shadow of what it used to be.

Shame really.........

 

Cue the abuse.

[butt lane vale fan]

Can't you just ban Geo and Rep from posting on the same thread. Lol. Or even 1 word off topic. Lol.

I only want read about the football club, not them pair constantly raising issue with each other. It's got to the point where most threads are now about 100 pages long with just them pair on about summat totally unrelated lol

[AlienTitWrench]

Around 8 years ago, OVF was a superb read. Loads of great debate and discussions. Along with some of our neighbours. Tunstall Potter. Delilah. Etc. Some great posters.

But when you get certain wind up merchants wanting to ruin it then im afraid you get what you deserve.

Admin were told on many occasions years back about the idiots on here, just trying to wind folk up, and did little to bugger all about it.

Now Rob you start wielding the axe?!

Years too late mate. Gone are your good posters, or should i say more forced away, because of the WUMS.

Easily identifiable but not dealt with.

OVF is a shadow of what it used to be.

Shame really.........

 

Cue the abuse.

 

 

 

Agreed

 

I loved this forum back then, so many great posters, interesting topics, Frank Talke and all that. Slowly though regular posters have gone away (myself included) and most threads are just pages and pages of posters arguing. You have to trawl through endless posts to find any decent information. I tend to just read and not post these days. (as you can tell from my post count vs my date of joining)

 

Back then the only windups was against 'Twitters' trying to get his post count up, and Colin ( Beechy) being for being a Liverpool fan.

Even Glenn posted some decent stuff

[PV1973]

Please don't take this the wrong way as I think its the right thing to do to clamp down on abuse, flaming, provocation etc.

 

TBH this is the first time I have heard it being left down to an automated system to decide when and who to ban. Its sounds like this could be open to abuse if someone wanted to constantly report a member. It sounds a bit like you think its an easier way to go to prevent any comeback at you?

 

Is there a rules section on the site laying down admins expectations for forum members? Forgive me if I’ve missed them, they should be prominent somewhere on the forum for all to see.

 

In my experience in being a member and moderating other forums I think it should be whoever is moderating and running the site that decides when people are overstepping the mark. The admin team should all be singing from the same rules hymn sheet and implement them as necessary whilst either going through the site themselves or reading reports from other members.

 

Another thing I've seen on forums from admin, instead of outright deleting a post, (which is a sure fire way to annoy people), is that admin will often edit the post in question, and in bold text will say ADMIN EDIT: OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE REMOVED, SEE FORUM RULES or ADMIN EDIT: PERSONAL ABUSE REMOVED, THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING, TAKE IT OUTSIDE THE FORUM OR ITS A WEEK LONG BAN. That kind of stuff, but you get the gist.

 

I know its hard (and I admit I've not seen anyone do it) but all admin members should be above all the personal stuff too, if they get involved then that's setting the marker for the whole forum.

 

I reiterate Rob that you're doing the right thing. But I'm not convinced that automated is the way to go. Personally I think if you want to implement rules, entice people back or attract new members then all the admin team need to be the arbitrators. Lay your rules down in black and white on the forum. It’s your site and to take it forward and build it then you should have the respect of the forum members to not over step the mark. I know football is a very emotive subject, but put your personal standards of what you’d expect from a forum on the site and in the rules, and if people don't want to be here because they aren't allowed to personally abuse other members then why are they here anyway when its a place to discuss the club?

[TylerB]

although under severe provocation sometimes

 

That has to be the most ironic thing I've read yet on this forum, among all the sucking up. You seem to revel in trying to provoke one or two others such as myself, so take a good look in the mirror! Pot calling the kettle black.

 

The saddest part about this forum, which I still enjoy even if most of the better posters have long moved on, is that you get into a heated debate with someone and that person will hold it against you many weeks later, or in a completely different thread in regards to a completely different subject. It's all a bit sad and pathetic really. It's just a forum at the end of the day.

 

I'll man up, however, and due to the way I post I should take the hit and be one of the people banned for the week proposed.

[robf]

PV1973:

 

1. There is a prominent Rules section. It's handily called Forum Rules and is on the front forum homepage (and always has been). The rules are also given to you when you register and you agree to follow them.

 

2. Comments when messages are deleted - we do that. You'll see notes such "deleted for personal abuse" etc.

 

3. The reporting system is NOT fully automated. If you report a post it is still looked at by the Admin team. That prevents abuse of the system. The automation element is simply that once an Admin person approves it then the ban is automatic (which saves us extra work and also means it is fair)

[robf]

Admin were told on many occasions years back about the idiots on here, just trying to wind folk up, and did little to bugger all about it.

Now Rob you start wielding the axe?!

Years too late mate.

 

To be fair, although it takes up a lot of my time, OVF is NOT the be all and end all in my life. It's NOT my full-time job, it started off as a hobby site!

 

I've been through various work redundancies, moved house, got married and had children. Sometimes there are events in my personal life that mean I didn't get the time to do what I wanted to do with OVF when I did (or should).

 

Yes, it's probably years overdue but then again this sort of system wasn't about then either.

 

So in defence, I think this is better late than never.