Hillsborough.

[melv]

Melv, study the Echo footage.3 times.Where were they supposed to go?So if the gate was not opened what would or may have happened?Duckenfield is a lying **** no question but I'm not sure what else could have been done.Tradegy outside or inside?RIP the 96.

 

There had been issues with safety before.I think if I remember right here was / were issues with the safety certificate.As has been already mentioned there should have been better police crowd control before this point.Was the match commander not watching the cctv camera's around the ground.What about police using radio's to inform the match commander?

[Mario]

It is very difficult and also easy to knock what goes on after the event and with the benefit of hindsight, I remember being at Chesterfield that afternoon and a lad in front of us had a radio, he was saying the scousers are kicking off again sounds like another Hysel, OBVIOUSLY I repeat OBVIOUSLY matters turned out to be terrible and shocking and I am sure if something similar happened today the outcome would have been better.

 

A number of agencies are to blame not just the Police, the Ambulance service, Sheffield Wednesday and the FA quite rightly should come under scrutiny.

[Fosse69]

anyone who went to matches pre 1990 know what it was like, the police thought we were the lowest of the low, someone to hone there customer skills on, but fans were no angels... "some" must have gone without tickets hopeing to get in somehow for a important match as this. when the gates were opened (how many times? it was getting near kick off time aswell, well... my respects to the 96 and will always remember them for the were the innocents they were in the ground, looking for a good place to watch, soaking up the atmosphere, then that surge down the tunnel...

we can and do blame the police, the FA, the ambulance service, ground design, and hopfully they will be sorted, but those fans who surged in after the gates had been opened cannot be blameless, because it was that, that crushed the 96 against that bloody fence that had to be put up because of the football culture of the time...

 

I fail to see how you can put any blame on a group of excited fans hurrying down a slope to get a place on the terraces, just before KO. In all-ticket game they would expect there to be space to stand. Apart from controlling admission, turnstiles controlled the flow onto the terraces, opening the gate bypassed the safety measure. There were gates in the pitch fencing, but were kept closed.

[Jacko51]

Jean,you say it doesn't matter how many times gate C was opened.I asked the question to Melv.What would you have done and what may have happened if the gate hadn't been opened?Ii don't think anyone wanted anyone else to die on that day.As JA said,we move on.

 

If the gate had not been opened, the deaths would probably have occured in the street outside rather than on the terrace. I have no problem with the actual opening of the gate. I do have a problem with the fact that it was done without the match commander making the decision earlier and considering the consequences.

 

Your original posts on this thread stated "I wonder if it's now time for those Liverpool fans who got into the game without tickets to now come forward and apologise to the families who lost someone?" It has been proven categorically that ticketless fans were NOT the cause of the problem and that the number on the terrace when the match was abandoned was less than the number of tickets sold. I suggest, therefore, that it would be appropriate for you to withdraw you request for an apology.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

All the evidence is on the LFC forums JA.

 

Are you able to provide a link please?

[Howjy04]

Are you able to provide a link please?

 

LFC Go Forum,JA.

[Jacko51]

There had been issues with safety before.I think if I remember right here was / were issues with the safety certificate.As has been already mentioned there should have been better police crowd control before this point.Was the match commander not watching the cctv camera's around the ground.What about police using radio's to inform the match commander?

 

The ground did not have a valid safety certificate yet still the FA chose it for the semi-final. At the 1988 semi-final there had been crushing issues with the Liverpool fans on that terrace and several had ended up with broke bones. The Liverpool chairman, Peter Robinson, wrote to Graham Kelly at the FA expressing his disquiet that Hillsborough had again been chosen for the semi-final and requesting that the match be moved to Old Trafford. Kelly ignored this request.

[Howjy04]

If the gate had not been opened, the deaths would probably have occured in the street outside rather than on the terrace. I have no problem with the actual opening of the gate. I do have a problem with the fact that it was done without the match commander making the decision earlier and considering the consequences.

 

Your original posts on this thread stated "I wonder if it's now time for those Liverpool fans who got into the game without tickets to now come forward and apologise to the families who lost someone?" It has been proven categorically that ticketless fans were NOT the cause of the problem and that the number on the terrace when the match was abandoned was less than the number of tickets sold. I suggest, therefore, that it would be appropriate for you to withdraw you request for an apology.

 

It was a question I asked not a statement.

[Howjy04]

The ground did not have a valid safety certificate yet still the FA chose it for the semi-final. At the 1988 semi-final there had been crushing issues with the Liverpool fans on that terrace and several had ended up with broke bones. The Liverpool chairman, Peter Robinson, wrote to Graham Kelly at the FA expressing his disquiet that Hillsborough had again been chosen for the semi-final and requesting that the match be moved to Old Trafford. Kelly ignored this request.

 

Ah yes,the very same Peter Robinson who claimed it was Chelsea fans at Heysel causing the trouble.See how easy it is to defend your own.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Ah yes,the very same Peter Robinson who claimed it was Chelsea fans at Heysel causing the trouble.See how easy it is to defend your own.

 

What he did or didn't do re Heysel in no way invalidates what he did re Hillsborough

[JOHNNYAITCH]

LFC Go Forum,JA.

 

I can't see any link there to take me to the evidence that was presented to the jury?

 

Maybe this will help..but there might be a lot to get through (to say the least)

 

http://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Ah yes,the very same Peter Robinson who claimed it was Chelsea fans at Heysel causing the trouble.See how easy it is to defend your own.

 

I don't think anyone is claiming that the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough all behaved like angels..that's not the point. The inquest that has heard all the available evidence has concluded that their actions were not responsible for any of the deaths but that those killed were killed unlawfully.

 

It is now up to the CPS and the courts to go thru the process of determining if any individuals should be charged, tried and convicted with relation to the deaths and any other related actions.

 

In short, some fans may have behaved badly but their actions did not cause the deaths

[Howjy04]

I can't see any link there to take me to the evidence that was presented to the jury?

 

Maybe this will help..but there might be a lot to get through (to say the least)

 

http://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/

 

Try LFCTV GO forum JA.Couple of years worth.Its a sticky on that site.

[Jacko51]

Ah yes,the very same Peter Robinson who claimed it was Chelsea fans at Heysel causing the trouble.See how easy it is to defend your own.

 

Why do people keep dragging Heysel into this? The Liverpool fans were responsible for events at Heysel and some were convicted in a court of law. That has nothing whatsoever to do with this case. And in requesting that the semi-final be moved, Robinson was not "defending his own", he was making a valid request on the basis of events in 1988 which was totally ignored by the FA.

[Jacko51]

It was a question I asked not a statement.

 

Well perhaps you may wish to answer your own question now with a resounding "no"?