Hillsborough.

[Howjy04]

Why do people keep dragging Heysel into this? The Liverpool fans were responsible for events at Heysel and some were convicted in a court of law. That has nothing whatsoever to do with this case. And in requesting that the semi-final be moved, Robinson was not "defending his own", he was making a valid request on the basis of events in 1988 which was totally ignored by the FA.

Why do people keep bringing Orgreave into this?

[Howjy04]

Well perhaps you may wish to answer your own question now with a resounding "no"?

 

No,Miss.

[Jacko51]

Why do people keep bringing Orgreave into this?

 

At no point have I mentioned Orgreave in any of my posts.

[Fosse69]

Why do people keep bringing Orgreave into this?

 

Just happens to be the same police force management

[Howjy04]

At no point have I mentioned Orgreave in any of my posts.

 

Just politicians then plus scousers.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

but those fans who surged in after the gates had been opened cannot be blameless, because it was that, that crushed the 96 against that bloody fence that had to be put up because of the football culture of the time...

 

But it was the responsibility of the police to ensure that did not happen, they made the decisions that allowed that to happen when it was their duty not to allow it to happen and it's to be claimed that they and others were criminally irresponsible in letting it happen. How were the fans to know that the relevant pens were already full and that they should not try to get into them? It was surely the duty of the police etc to manage that situation, to know that the pens were full and to direct people elsewhere...they failed to do so.

 

Lots of events led to this but the bottom line is on the day the police and others did not carry out their responsibilities and deaths resulted..was anyone criminally responsible is yet to be decided.

 

I've nothing to add

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Try LFCTV GO forum JA.Couple of years worth.Its a sticky on that site.

 

I saw that but it took me to posts by forum numbers

 

Anyways the link I gave is I believe the official link to the evidence so anyone that wishes to know ALL the facts presented to the jury and so can see on what basis they arrived at their decisions can use that if they are so inclined. I'm satisfied that the jurors arrived at honest decisions and this time were given all the relevant evidence.

[Howjy04]

I saw that but it took me to posts by forum numbers

 

Anyways the link I gave is I believe the official link to the evidence so anyone that wishes to know ALL the facts presented to the jury and so can see on what basis they arrived at their decisions can use that if they are so inclined. I'm satisfied that the jurors arrived at honest decisions and this time were given all the relevant evidence.

Google Liverpool Forums ,it comes up then.

[Jacko51]

Just politicians then plus scousers.

 

Excuse me? What does that mean?

[Howjy04]

Excuse me? What does that mean?

 

Just Politicians and Scousers then.(Not You)Ok?

[Davebrad]

I fail to see how you can put any blame on a group of excited fans hurrying down a slope to get a place on the terraces, just before KO. In all-ticket game they would expect there to be space to stand. Apart from controlling admission, turnstiles controlled the flow onto the terraces, opening the gate bypassed the safety measure. There were gates in the pitch fencing, but were kept closed.

 

in a all ticket perfect world there would have been room, if they had gone to all available spaces, if you look at pictures of that end it is packed, there's a picture of outside the gate at 1453 and it shows a great number of fans with fans climbing up and sitting astride the wall, but when the gates opened however many times those outside weither with tickets or not and there must have been some without who took the opportunity to go in, and with the pitch in sight went for it. I believe the fence gates were not opened because the situation was not realised, and to have opened the fence gates would have defeated there object and allowed Liverpool fans to go onto the pitch and to the Nott Forest fans as the banter and chanting with the Notts Forest fans was ongoing even to when casualties were being taken onto the pitch.

Serious mistakes were made and we have learnt by them, and now others will be brought to account, but the outside gates were opened to relieve a potential accident, but then caused a greater unforeseen one...

The coroner rightly said "none of the 96 Liverpool fans were to blame" they wer'nt what killed them was being the innocents between the fence and that surge of fans coming in.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

but the outside gates were opened to relieve a potential accident, but then caused a greater unforeseen one...

 

It was the responsibility/duty of the police to foresee what would happen (and indeed to have planned and so on for what would happen to prevent the apparent need to open the gate)..they failed in their responsibility/duty to such an extent that people have been deemed to have been unlawfully killed so now we'll see if any individuals are criminally responsible.

[Fosse69]

It was the responsibility/duty of the police to foresee what would happen (and indeed to have planned and so on for what would happen to prevent the apparent need to open the gate)..they failed in their responsibility/duty to such an extent that people have been deemed to have been unlawfully killed so now we'll see if any individuals are criminally responsible.

Safety aspects were covered in the operational plan used in the previous years semi-final between the same clubs, thus obvious where the blame lies. The FA has a lot to answer for having been told of the problems at the previous semi-final and still choosing Hillsborough, whereas Old Trafford was a much safer ground but further for Forest to travel to.

[Davebrad]

Advance 27yrs and todays health and safety probably would get it near right but you can't predict what people will do. going a step further if your young lad says to you one morning dad can I go school by my self today cause I,m 7 now, and billy does,he's your responsibility but you let him go knowing he's to cross 2 roads, as he crosses the 2nd road a car swerves to miss him and the driver dies, a tragic accident but technically you failed in your responsibility/duty of care to him...

simplified I know but all we can do is our best with the info we've got at the time, there is blame to be attached then its his bosses who put him in that position with out proper training... lets hope we can find any people responsible and it does not turn into a witch hunt.

[Fosse69]

Advance 27yrs and todays health and safety probably would get it near right but you can't predict what people will do. going a step further if your young lad says to you one morning dad can I go school by my self today cause I,m 7 now, and billy does,he's your responsibility but you let him go knowing he's to cross 2 roads, as he crosses the 2nd road a car swerves to miss him and the driver dies, a tragic accident but technically you failed in your responsibility/duty of care to him...

simplified I know but all we can do is our best with the info we've got at the time, there is blame to be attached then its his bosses who put him in that position with out proper training... lets hope we can find any people responsible and it does not turn into a witch hunt.

Am I not putting my point over well enough? Policing at a football match is to maintain order and ensure public safety. Safety was the paramount point of the match operational plan, it is the commanders duty to familiarize himself with that plan and to ensure that his subordinate supervisors are too. Not a complicated plan, but all steps had to be followed. I think any blame on his bosses would be for the cover up.