Hillsborough.

[Fosse69]

This was also an all-ticket match to limit the number of people in the ground., thus allowing people in other than by ticket defeats the object. I have been to Goodison and Old Trafford in the 60s where it was impossible to move my arms during the game, when entrance was without tickets thus little thought given to safety when reliant on turnstile counters. Stewards did attempt to spread people about on the terraces but once the game started the crowd moved.

[Shropshire_Valiant]

I'm glad the families will have some level of closure it must be horrible what they have been through as no one should go to a footie game and not come home!

 

Interesting there were no headlines in the Sun or Times today re the story!#whatasurprise

[Davebrad]

Split second decisions are not made by senior management without knowlege of the possible outcomes, that is their task. Otherwise they are incompetent and create serious promlems, in this case the deaths of 96 people.

 

in todays culture right or wrong of health and safety and risk assessment yes, this 95% would not have happened, but that inspector watching those fans streaming up the approach to the turnstiles, the fans already there plus those just got inside the ground and not yet gone thru into the stand, would not have had a inkling that this would happen or the police would have held the fans back till the congestion at the turnstiles had cleared. To say he was incompetent for making that decision is ok with hindsight, but at that moment he made a snap decision to relieve the pressure at the turnstiles, we now know it was the wrong one but he didn't think i'll open the gates and cause a disaster...today the police ground commander and his staff have special crowd control training but things can and still do go wrong as we've seen up the Vale but luckly with out any accidents.

[Fosse69]

I also think we were lucky that apart from broken legs with people falling off the roof of the Railway stand nobody was killed during the replay with Liverpool in the 60s. Some say there were 56000 in VP that night. The paddock exit gate at the Hamil end was opened to allow an invalid car in, which was the practice at the time, but spotting the opportunity to avoid quequing people pushed the gate wide open and surged into the paddock. Luckily the surge was sideways across the terrace thus not forcing people against a wall. With replays just a few days after the drawn game in those days there was no time to print standing tickets, although seats tickets would sometimes be printed as a precaution.

[Fosse69]

Dave Brad.

 

It should not have been his decision to make, it was the match commanders decision. All part of the management failures leading up to the game. He would have been aware of the consequences of his actions if properly briefed as part of the operational plan for semi-finals held at Hillsborough. Not a one off, a regular venue in those days. The major problem being the change of the experienced match commander 19 days prior to the game. I would put no blame on the Insp, he did what he thought best, properly briefed he would have had the tunnel to the centre pens closed first, the crowd would have gone to the other pens .

[geosname]

I think there was a culture within the police that football fans were subhuman and therefore didnt matter.

The fact the incident took place is sadly shocking enough but to smear the fans and cover up is despicable, however what is worse is the idea they could and should do it to hide their own inabilities and failures.

How is it possible to trust such a large body of individuals who seem to think they are above the law or that it can be perverted to suit themselves.

[fairportnick]

Split second decisions are not made by senior management without knowlege of the possible outcomes, that is their task. Otherwise they are incompetent and create serious promlems, in this case the deaths of 96 people.

 

in todays culture right or wrong of health and safety and risk assessment yes, this 95% would not have happened, but that inspector watching those fans streaming up the approach to the turnstiles, the fans already there plus those just got inside the ground and not yet gone thru into the stand, would not have had a inkling that this would happen

 

They were told by an off duty senior doctor (who later took a major role ) that this could happen, 45 minutes before kick off.

[Jacko51]

The crush at the turnstile could have been avoided by setting up a police cordon further along the road to control the approach to the turnstiles. This had been done the year before but the new match commander does not appear to have made any effort to familiarise himself with the procedures. The need to open Gate C would have been avoided. The closure of the gates to the tunnel on to the terrace was common practice at the ground once the central pens were full. Again the match commander does not seem to have been aware of this. His incompetent management of the entire event defies belief. And his telling Graham Kelly at 3.15 that the crush had been caused by an onrush of fans charging Gate C and breaking in was the first lie told in the subsequent trail of lies told by the Police.

[melv]

No shock at all here,not even surprised in the slightest. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-36147007

[Jacko51]

No shock at all here,not even surprised in the slightest. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-36147007

 

My copy of The Times has a photograph of the Hillsborough families on the front so I don't know where the one on your link has come from, melv?

[Jacko51]

Incidentally I can't believe how the FA seems to have escaped any serious censure for this. They gave the semi-final to a ground where there had been serious problems in 1981 at the Leppings Lane End, where there had been crushing the year before and which didn't have a safety certificate. They thought it was acceptable to provide access for the 10,100 fans wih tickets for Leppings Lane through only 7 antiquated turnstiles. They must surely bear some responsibility for what happened?

[Trampilot]

Incidentally I can't believe how the FA seems to have escaped any serious censure for this. They gave the semi-final to a ground where there had been serious problems in 1981 at the Leppings Lane End, where there had been crushing the year before and which didn't have a safety certificate. They thought it was acceptable to provide access for the 10,100 fans wih tickets for Leppings Lane through only 7 antiquated turnstiles. They must surely bear some responsibility for what happened?

 

Indeed. This was the point I was going to make. Had they followed their own rules the match would have been played at another ground WITH a valid safety certificate. The FA are partly responsible for the deaths and should be charged accordingly.

[Davebrad]

as, as been said there were a number of parties responsible, ie police, ambulance service, the fa, the ground design, and they all must now be looked at, but a simple question "why was the front barrier there"?

[Fosse69]

The crush at the turnstile could have been avoided by setting up a police cordon further along the road to control the approach to the turnstiles. This had been done the year before but the new match commander does not appear to have made any effort to familiarise himself with the procedures. The need to open Gate C would have been avoided. The closure of the gates to the tunnel on to the terrace was common practice at the ground once the central pens were full. Again the match commander does not seem to have been aware of this. His incompetent management of the entire event defies belief. And his telling Graham Kelly at 3.15 that the crush had been caused by an onrush of fans charging Gate C and breaking in was the first lie told in the subsequent trail of lies told by the Police.

Whose decision was it to use 140 less police than usual for a semi at the ground? Surely they would have been useful in controlling orderly quequing.

[Fosse69]

My copy of The Times has a photograph of the Hillsborough families on the front so I don't know where the one on your link has come from, melv?

Jacko, you had the 2nd Edition, Melv must had the 1st Edition, according to the BBC at lunch time.