Reading (A) match thread - Jan 13th

[CambridgeDon]

19 minutes ago, efsb said:

The full paragraph reads:

The Management Committee shall review all Competition Matches abandoned in cases where it is consequent upon the conduct of either or both Teams. Where it is to the advantage of the Competition and does no injustice to either Club, the Management Committee shall order the score at the time of the abandonment to stand. In all cases where the Management Committee are satisfied that a Match was abandoned owing to the conduct of one Team or its Club member(s) they shall award the points for the Match to the opponent. In cases where a Match has been abandoned owing to the conduct of both Teams or their Club member(s), the Management Committee shall rule that neither Team will be awarded any points for that Match and it shall not be replayed. No fine(s) can be applied by the Management Committee for an abandoned Match.

It also refers to matches under the jurisdiction of County FA's (hence "Management Committees") and not EFL matches so I don't think we will be seeing the three points any time soon, much as I'd like to

[smithie]

3 minutes ago, dazzerjames said:

How would , (for a fixture of this size ) probably 20 coppers  prevent 1000’s of fans on mass entering a football pitch and staging a peaceful protest.

it’s the club’s responsibility unless its fans fighting engaged in disorder 

fans clapping and shaking hands with each other doesn’t fit that narrative 

If you were there today you'd have seen that 99% of the pitch invaders came from two small access points onto the perimeter. Virtually any meaningful police presence would have prevented that - and if they couldn't prevent it, they absolutely should have shifted the Reading fans off the pitch after 20-30 minutes. There were police reinforcements outside the ground by 4pm - reinforcing what exactly? 

The vast majority of Reading fans stayed seated despite undoubtedly agreeing with the sentiment behind the protest. A small number has ruined the day. 

[smithie]

9 minutes ago, JohnJames said:

They make an informed Judgement that leaving the peaceful protestors have their peaceful protest is less risky and costly than trying to remove them. Which could lead to a Riot.

Noneone got injured. It’s also not thei responsibility to police private venues 

If it's not their responsibility, why are they there? 

[SFBT]

5 minutes ago, CambridgeDon said:

The full paragraph reads:

The Management Committee shall review all Competition Matches abandoned in cases where it is consequent upon the conduct of either or both Teams. Where it is to the advantage of the Competition and does no injustice to either Club, the Management Committee shall order the score at the time of the abandonment to stand. In all cases where the Management Committee are satisfied that a Match was abandoned owing to the conduct of one Team or its Club member(s) they shall award the points for the Match to the opponent. In cases where a Match has been abandoned owing to the conduct of both Teams or their Club member(s), the Management Committee shall rule that neither Team will be awarded any points for that Match and it shall not be replayed. No fine(s) can be applied by the Management Committee for an abandoned Match.

It also refers to matches under the jurisdiction of County FA's (hence "Management Committees") and not EFL matches so I don't think we will be seeing the three points any time soon, much as I'd like to

Which would put us in 13th place, 10 points clear of the bottom four. Let's see what actually happens...

[worldsendvalefan]

1 minute ago, smithie said:

Remind me what the police are there for? 

To be fair to the Police there was only about 6 of them there. Reading were at fault as they obviously were aware something like this would happen. They should have

1. paid for more stewards.

2. What stewards they did have which was quite a few, should have been lined up in advance in front of the section where the invasion was likely to come from. Therefore preventing the pitch invasion.

3. As what goes on inside the stadium is the clubs responsibility, they should have paid for more Police. Then they could have been a decent deterrent.

4. If those 6 Police officers had started arresting people, they could have only arrested a maximum of 6. Then there would have been no Officers left on the pitch. More likely due to gross lack of numbers, idiots would have kicked off making the situation worse. The Police could have called for extra officers to be deployed but I imagine that would have led to argument over who was paying for them. Such is the pathetic world we live in today.

5. Reading FC and their fans are totally to blame for today's farce. After all the idiot kids ran back to the stands, it was mostly adults who were left on the pitch. They obviously didn't give a toss about hundreds of fellow football supporters who had spent a lot of hard earned money and time to get to that game. Then to have their day ruined.

[dazzerjames]

3 minutes ago, smithie said:

If you were there today you'd have seen that 99% of the pitch invaders came from two small access points onto the perimeter. Virtually any meaningful police presence would have prevented that - and if they couldn't prevent it, they absolutely should have shifted the Reading fans off the pitch after 20-30 minutes. There were police reinforcements outside the ground by 4pm - reinforcing what exactly? 

The vast majority of Reading fans stayed seated despite undoubtedly agreeing with the sentiment behind the protest. A small number has ruined the day. 

The club either pay for police in the ground (private venue ) or they don’t. I’d imagine with their money issues they hadn’t today

 

The stewards are there to stop fans invading a pitch.

 

what level of force would the Police use to get peaceful protesters off a pitch ? 
 

I mean who doesn’t love blaming the Police for most of society’s issues. But today is a leap 

[Lornelounger]

2 minutes ago, smithie said:

If you were there today you'd have seen that 99% of the pitch invaders came from two small access points onto the perimeter. Virtually any meaningful police presence would have prevented that - and if they couldn't prevent it, they absolutely should have shifted the Reading fans off the pitch after 20-30 minutes. There were police reinforcements outside the ground by 4pm - reinforcing what exactly? 

The vast majority of Reading fans stayed seated despite undoubtedly agreeing with the sentiment behind the protest. A small number has ruined the day. 

I know it's frustrating Smithie, but my view is that fans would have got on regardless of the police presence - it's too big a perimeter, and the fans were determined to make their point.  By "small number", I'm assuming you mean the few that occupied the centre circle towards the end?  The fans on the pitch at the height of the protest were not a small number.  This was always going to happen today - everyone had heard about it, and I think the police deliberately played it low key to prevent further aggro.  I think they sat down beforehand and realised they couldn't prevent it, and if they tried to, it would get nasty.  

It is frustrating though. Really feel for the fans still on the motorway...

[Osh]

35 minutes ago, Nippy Naylor said:

Any protest should be staged either before or after a match. Not during there fans defo crossed the line today , imo .

Rubbish. We helped Fulham when they had their sit down protest in the centre circle. 

The Reading fans have made many protests and not been listened to. While it's a pain in the arse today I fully support them. 

[smithie]

5 minutes ago, dazzerjames said:

The club either pay for police in the ground (private venue ) or they don’t. I’d imagine with their money issues they hadn’t today

 

The stewards are there to stop fans invading a pitch.

 

what level of force would the Police use to get peaceful protesters off a pitch ? 
 

I mean who doesn’t love blaming the Police for most of society’s issues. But today is a leap 

Were you there? 

[Fosse69]

That’s a good read, LL. It seems the general principle that the football authorities prefer to see the result of a game settled on the pitch rather than by their decision. So the odds are, imho, that they will order a replay, charge Reading and then refer the matter to their Disciplinary Committee for adjudication.
They do though have a problem in the precedent this might set if the offending club, in this case Reading, win any replay as the fans of other teams might think they can gain an advantage from a losing position in a critical game. I would assume, therefore, that the punishment would be so severe (eg a huge points deduction) that any attempts to get games abandoned would be totally disincentivised.
Reading are in for some serious punishment. 

Reading have failed to control the crowd, in particular their own supporters, and so will be fined. Vale and their travelling support require compensation. All future Reading home games are to be played behind closed doors until there are new owners in control. Points deducted if considered necessary. But points only awarded by results of games unless of no consequence to other teams.

Sent from my SM-A715F using onevalefan mobile app

[dazzerjames]

12 minutes ago, smithie said:

If it's not their responsibility, why are they there? 

For disorder , fans were clapping  and shaking hands 

[Howjy04]

I’m not sure what the outcome will be but Reading should get a massive fine and/or a points deduction.If only a slap on the wrist how many games will be abandoned?Scenario - Last game of the season,team losing 4-0 ,”Right boys and girls ,on the pitch we go”.

[Trumpingtonvale]

1 hour ago, efsb said:

You would think that the EFL would take into consideration the lack of security/policing when making a sanctions decision, given the fact that every man and his dog knew exactly what was planned, at least a couple of days in advance.

Exactly this.  A club has a duty of care for its own and its opponent’s employees/players and fans.  There was no guarantee that today’s actions could have endangered players. I have seen video where there was an interaction between Conor Ripley and some of the fans as they ran onto the pitch (they knocked the ball out of his hands). Imagine if Vale had scored and Conor had said something to any of those fans running onto the pitch took it the wrong way, the repercussions for Conor and/or our other players could have been a lot worse.

Sanctions could be huge, even without considering fines and point deductions, for both the club and their fans eg remaining fixtures played behind closed doors and a ban on their fans travelling to away games too to avoid their disrupting home and away games).  That might have the effect of the owner losing even more money and forcing him to sell sooner (which is ultimately what the fans want) but if he can’t sell he could do a Smurthwaite and put the club into administration and walk away as he has done for at least two clubs before Reading-definitely what the fans don’t want(ie admin/liquidation)

The fall out of today’s events for Port Vale is unknown but whatever happens the EFL has to be fair and balanced to both the Vale and the rest of the League.  I’m not holding my breath on the EFL being either.

[smithie]

8 minutes ago, dazzerjames said:

The club either pay for police in the ground (private venue ) or they don’t. I’d imagine with their money issues they hadn’t today

 

The stewards are there to stop fans invading a pitch.

 

what level of force would the Police use to get peaceful protesters off a pitch ? 
 

I mean who doesn’t love blaming the Police for most of society’s issues. But today is a leap 

Let's assume that Reading FC know where previous protests (tennis balls) have come from. Let's assume it's reasonable to think any further action would most likely come from those areas. 

With that in mind, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect them to concentrate stewards in that area? To work with the police in attendance to pre-empt the disruption? 

I guess we've got different expectations of the police and stewards. 

[dazzerjames]

5 minutes ago, smithie said:

Were you there? 

No but you could see on the tv about 6 Coppers in the ground and others have said the same who were there.

do I need to have been there to agree if todays match being abandoned is the police’s fault 

Was anyone injured ? Did anyone assault anyone , cause any damage ?