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Match Thread: Walsall v Port Vale


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Change that should have happened weeks ago. 
signing the same old squad players. Not making subs. He’s not changed 

Should the change ha a happened weeks ago though? For all the abuse of players on here. It’s only after yesterday’s game that it has started on Legge and Smith.

I haven’t seen anyone in any the pre match talks not picking both legge and smith in recent weeks.
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Yeah you being the captain of that club

Glad he's figured that out, in the 11th consecutive game of no clean sheets.

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12 hours ago, PVFC_4_EVA said:


Should the change ha a happened weeks ago though? For all the abuse of players on here. It’s only after yesterday’s game that it has started on Legge and Smith.

I haven’t seen anyone in any the pre match talks not picking both legge and smith in recent weeks.

Yes 100% it should have done. Losing 6 games in a row some to the worst sides in the division with one of the worst performances in vales history is not acceptable. unless we want to keep accepting this <ovf censored> year after year in the basement of English football. 
I and others have wanted legge dropped since the Tranmere game. It was blatantly obvious he needed Resting but lord askey keeps going with an ageing centre half game after game. It’s no surprise we concede so many goals. 
Smith there hasn’t been but a lot on here have wanted legge dropped for weeks. 
 

Edited by valiant_593

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One strange thing is that there seems to be leaks all over the show.

It's going from being watertight to about dozen conflicting rumours about McKirdy, Clark, Sinclair, Askey/Carol, the training regime, senior players falling out (not saying any are wrong, just loads knocking about).

100% a sign to me that something is amiss. For this many people to be 'hearing things' suggests someone isn't happy at the club. We heard very little last season. Feels like a genuine crisis brewing and as much as they probably deserve dropping, it'd be naive to believe that Legge, Brown, and Smith don't hold a lot of sway in the dressing room.

All a big mess. Needs sorting. We can't autopilot to May.

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34 minutes ago, Joe B said:

One strange thing is that there seems to be leaks all over the show.

It's going from being watertight to about dozen conflicting rumours about McKirdy, Clark, Sinclair, Askey/Carol, the training regime, senior players falling out (not saying any are wrong, just loads knocking about).

100% a sign to me that something is amiss. For this many people to be 'hearing things' suggests someone isn't happy at the club. We heard very little last season. Feels like a genuine crisis brewing and as much as they probably deserve dropping, it'd be naive to believe that Legge, Brown, and Smith don't hold a lot of sway in the dressing room.

All a big mess. Needs sorting. We can't autopilot to May.

Very true. The common thread that I’ve heard is a couple of players who’s attitude in training and around the club is negative and that caused a bit of a split between them and the rest of the group, with the experienced pros having to step in and try and stamp it out. In my opinion I think that’s why its seen certain players dumped from the matchday squads and then it came to a bit of a head in the press last week with Askey talking about trying to get 2 out come January.

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17 hours ago, TheSage said:

100% this.

Of course, it's much easier from my armchair - and when teams lose confidence it becomes a lot harder - but as you say a professional team, with coaching staff, video analysts and management, surely ought to be able to better organise our back line and turn them into a well drilled unit. 

If players are tiring we can bring on up to 5 subs. We can go 352 or 451 if we are protecting a lead with minutes to go. But we don't seem to do any of these things.  One or two mistakes is fair enough. It happens. But not game after game after game. 

 

Totally agreed. Askey appears incapable of reacting to the changes of formation when opposing teams do a mult-sub swap.  It's happened during a few matches and he has failed to react on each occasion with negative consequences!  When will he learn?

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16 hours ago, ELDERBEZZA said:

I've watched many training sessions and they're better than the dross we're  watching at the moment, ALL training,up to about 5 weeks ago,is high tempo and the attitude is very good.The players appeared in good spirits too.Askey,Kevan,Pugh,Rudge are all giving input plus the goalkeeping coach.Whatever has gone wrong since I last went is baffling me.

Confidence levels have clearly dropped, with usually steady players like Nathan Smith and even Scott Brown to a degree recently falling well below their usually high standards.  But what's most disappointing to me, is the way in which we seem totally incapable of closing down a game when we are in charge or even holding on for a draw in a tight contest.  These are basic tactical issues and because we are not carrying these out, I believe that's one of the big reasons for the lower confidence.  In the last two away games, we've scored 9 goals--loads of teams would give their high teeth to be able to claim that.  Unfortunately we've also conceded 7 goals and as in many times previously, a lot of those goals against have come later than the 80th minute. Lack of concentration? Lack of staying power? Lack of bottle?  I wish I knew! But like the vast majority of Vale supporters, it's doing my head in!!!

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If there's genuine issues in the dressing room, combined with the oldest squad in the league and key players seemingly in decline, then we've got to reset the squad in the summer. There's a pile of dead wood who are just not good enough/getting any minutes.

We either need to:

1) Go all in in January; if Carol trusts Askey then he needs her full confidence to make a fist out of an improbable, late top 7 surge. This doesn't equate to big spending, but there needs to be changes in January.

2) Accept the season is over and plan accordingly. This wasn't a transition season; this was a season where an experienced squad, boosted by a settled 11 and the same coaches, made a top 7 tilt. If we just sort of meander to May, and this talk of dressing room rifts are accurate, we've got to overhaul the squad and build again. Get the scouting lists sorted, focus on players under 30, and possibly plan for a new coach.

I'd hate for us to be stuck in a perpetual cycle of 'let's see where we are in X' until we hit May, we've finished 14th, the squad don't get on and the spine are all 36, and then start to react. This current squad has a very short remaining life-span, and they either go up in the next two years or it needs to be rebuilt.

Personally, if anyone was ever daft enough to give me control of things (which would be a disaster), I'd probably write the season off and allow Askey to continue, but start planning for fundamental overhaul from May. I'd go as far as getting a DoF in but I'm a bit weird like that. If Askey can pull things around and finish top 10, then maybe he lives to see his last year of his contract, but I'd still be overseeing reform of recruitment as once more, as his transfers have let us down.

Keeping Askey for the rest of the season should not result in everything continuing as it has thus far. Mistakes have clearly been made and need sorting.

We've had pretty much a settled 8/9 out of 11 for 3 years now. We're approaching boom or bust.

 

 

Edited by Joe B
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One strange thing is that there seems to be leaks all over the show.
It's going from being watertight to about dozen conflicting rumours about McKirdy, Clark, Sinclair, Askey/Carol, the training regime, senior players falling out (not saying any are wrong, just loads knocking about).
100% a sign to me that something is amiss. For this many people to be 'hearing things' suggests someone isn't happy at the club. We heard very little last season. Feels like a genuine crisis brewing and as much as they probably deserve dropping, it'd be naive to believe that Legge, Brown, and Smith don't hold a lot of sway in the dressing room.
All a big mess. Needs sorting. We can't autopilot to May.
They aren't leaks they're just made up make believes to justify poor performances. Carol has got rid of all the old guard and put people she trusts in those positions even down to the cleaners. The players are isolated from all other staff bar the people who serve them lunch. So you tell me who is in the know with all that's going on within the club. As for mckirdy the troublemaker disrupting the dressing room the lad sits on his own at lunch whilst all the other players sit together. I've seen it with my own eyes Looks more like the geeky kid at school rather than a bolshy bully causing trouble.
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1 hour ago, dishydave said:

They aren't leaks they're just made up make believes to justify poor performances. Carol has got rid of all the old guard and put people she trusts in those positions even down to the cleaners. The players are isolated from all other staff bar the people who serve them lunch. So you tell me who is in the know with all that's going on within the club. As for mckirdy the troublemaker disrupting the dressing room the lad sits on his own at lunch whilst all the other players sit together. I've seen it with my own eyes Looks more like the geeky kid at school rather than a bolshy bully causing trouble.

I think if he's isolated, does that not suggest there are problems?

You don't gave to be a bolshy bully to cause issues. If he hasn't integrated with the squad, that's a problem.

If what you're saying is true, a lot of Vale fans are, in your eyes, making up damaging rumours for a bit of a laugh. I personally don't buy it, as a lot of people who have reported things are fairly trustworthy.

Edited by Joe B

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3 hours ago, Joe B said:

If there's genuine issues in the dressing room, combined with the oldest squad in the league and key players seemingly in decline, then we've got to reset the squad in the summer. There's a pile of dead wood who are just not good enough/getting any minutes.

We either need to:

1) Go all in in January; if Carol trusts Askey then he needs her full confidence to make a fist out of an improbable, late top 7 surge. This doesn't equate to big spending, but there needs to be changes in January.

2) Accept the season is over and plan accordingly. This wasn't a transition season; this was a season where an experienced squad, boosted by a settled 11 and the same coaches, made a top 7 tilt. If we just sort of meander to May, and this talk of dressing room rifts are accurate, we've got to overhaul the squad and build again. Get the scouting lists sorted, focus on players under 30, and possibly plan for a new coach.

I'd hate for us to be stuck in a perpetual cycle of 'let's see where we are in X' until we hit May, we've finished 14th, the squad don't get on and the spine are all 36, and then start to react. This current squad has a very short remaining life-span, and they either go up in the next two years or it needs to be rebuilt.

Personally, if anyone was ever daft enough to give me control of things (which would be a disaster), I'd probably write the season off and allow Askey to continue, but start planning for fundamental overhaul from May. I'd go as far as getting a DoF in but I'm a bit weird like that. If Askey can pull things around and finish top 10, then maybe he lives to see his last year of his contract, but I'd still be overseeing reform of recruitment as once more, as his transfers have let us down.

Keeping Askey for the rest of the season should not result in everything continuing as it has thus far. Mistakes have clearly been made and need sorting.

We've had pretty much a settled 8/9 out of 11 for 3 years now. We're approaching boom or bust.

 

 

Spot on Joe!!Especially in these difficult times and not knowing the future financial implications of the club.Any other time and it would be a different story VTID

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On 19/12/2020 at 22:05, Biddulph_PV said:

Team for the visit of Barrow in Fungus....

Visser

Smith-Brisley-Crookes-Fitz

Manny-Whitehead-Conlon

Amoo-Rodney-Hurst

I’ve gone nuclear because something has got to change defensively. Get Brown, Mills, Legge and Joyce out who were, to varying degrees, poor today. Let’s see what Visser’s made off, he’s no spring chicken so shouldn’t exactly phased by playing in front of one man and his dog. 

Smith out of the middle to right back, although to be honest the cleaning lady could have done a better job than Mills today. 

Hopefully Manny’s fit, and I’d stick Whitehead in because if he offers nothing then let him go in January.

Get them in Xmas Day to practice if needs be.

If we’re chasing the game on 60 minutes the drop a midfielder and get Pope on. 

Desperate for 3 points to stave off relegation fears.

whitehead? really.:sos:

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22 hours ago, Joe B said:

If you were around for that I presume you were around for the 1990s.

I've seen more administrations than promotions 😅

My favourite player is John McCombe. 

Absolutely miserable existence. 

Unfortunately you missed out on the good times under Rudgie Joe.  Unforgettable derby games and meetings against the likes of Arsenal and Everton home and away,plus three visits to Wembley.

Let's hope the best is yet to come?

 

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