Match Thread: Mansfield Town v Port Vale

[ClntonBoulton]

It’s clear we’d set up to be negative, we rarely pushed on and Pope was isolated again at times. Having a midfield three of Pugh Kay and Tonge will always dictate that we are just trying to contain the game too. They might have had more possession and pressure and we can talk all day about what could of happened, but the end justified the means and we got a point we had set up for.

 

But ultimately today highlighted why we can’t continue with those 3 old midfielders. I don’t doubt their commitment and individually they can add something to the side, but not collectively. There were a lot of incidents where they looked favourite to get the ball and yet their lack of sharpness saw them miss out. Tonge especially was guilty of this, we had a couple of chances to break and he was just that half yard short and once their more midfielders found their feet they were just passing around our midfield and were that much quicker and sharper in every way, in nicking the ball, on the half turn, in the tackle and they were left flat footed. Pugh looked like someone who hadn’t played in a while, getting in the way of players who’d clearly shouted for the ball, he was just not looking sharp. One particular instance second half stood out, we had a great break down the left where Gibbons played him a really clever reverse ball and Pugh (like Tonge) just seemed to be on his heels and the chance went. The game just went like that for all 3 of the oldies, it just showed we need more mobility in that Center and also more guile too, not just graft.

 

You must really watch the same game as me! You often mirror my feelings exactly. Now I can only watch on iFollow but my views, for what they are worth, about the 3 midfielders you mention are similar to yours. Kay for me does a good job shielding the back four and his organisational work and encouragement are an integral part of the team. Tonge fascinates me because you can see what a good player he was but at times it is like watching a punch drunk, aged boxer. His head knows what he wants to do but his feet and speed of thought don't always get it right. His radar seems to have gone a bit too...his passes frequently stop the forward momentum as the receiver has to stop or even go back. Many times over the last weeks I've seen him spot the right pass but delay it and a foot comes in and he loses the ball. Pugh is a bits and bobs player but I think you're right he was match rusty yesterday.

The main problem as has been stated many times is when all 3 are played together. They are afraid to push on because they haven't got the legs any more and if they do push on and we lose the ball they can't get back quickly enough leaving us exposed. All 3 play and we have no attacking options and when they scored on 70 mins yesterday I thought that was it.

They have all done what they can this season in my eyes and it is churlish to keep being so negative about Tonge. Aspo knows more than I do but I sense he will relish having options next year in midfield but the "Old Guard" will be kept on to help with their experience/coaching.

We absolutely must get a LB. Howkins has shown the benefit of having some height, if not age, at the back. A commanding CB would help Smithy so much. We need legs and engine in the midfield and someone to play off Popey. (Think it's all been said before!) Hornby has come on and looked confident and composed yesterday. I would have been tempted to have followed through with one of my goalkicks from hand and "caught" that lad standing in front of him. (Thought they had to stand still?) We do need competition in goal though and I don't think Booty is the man, unfortunately.

Anyway, breathe easy Valiants until the retained list is released and transfers announced and then "Off we go again..."

[Doha]

Hornby could have done better with the goal.

 

Great ball from Turner.

 

Embarrassing attendance for a club who would have been a point off the playoffs with a win. We simply have to get out of this tinpot league.

 

I've discovered what's worse than listening to an Artell interview. Listening to an Artell interview while Graham McGarry's laboured, emphysemic haggard mouth breathing wheezes on in the background. I had to press mute.

[Doha]

Also

 

terrible decision making from Raglan, booting it straight ahead. Idiot.

 

[Aussie Rules]

I wonder if young Dan is reflecting on his debut game against Bolton on this day 12 months ago?

[PV1973]

Also

 

terrible decision making from Raglan, booting it straight ahead. Idiot.

 

Easy to say in hindsight but maybe he should have gone with his left foot there.

[philpvfc]

Easy to say in hindsight but maybe he should have gone with his left foot there.

 

Poor by the goalkeeper then terrible by Raglan, saying that it sounds like we were lucky not to concede more.

[bycars bootboy]

Did you watch the match?

 

I don't know how you can say the tactics we're spot on when one side was outplayed for 75/80 minutes and had what 20+ shots and one had what 4/5. We have hornby to thank today imo. It's a great point that I'm really happy we got I don't think we got it right tactically though given the amount of chances they had.

 

If you attended yesterday thinking Vale were ever going to match them man for man, then you were delusional.I can appreciate you want to watch a winning Vale team and you've every right, as you've paid your way but sometimes we have to accept we are going to be second best in many games(yesterday being no exception)and its up to our manager to set the team up the best he can, with the resources available to him and most agree, that's exactly what he did and he must be given credit, along with the players.

[valiant_593]

If you attended yesterday thinking Vale were ever going to match them man for man, then you were delusional.I can appreciate you want to watch a winning Vale team and you've every right, as you've paid your way but sometimes we have to accept we are going to be second best in many games(yesterday being no exception)and its up to our manager to set the team up the best he can, with the resources available to him and most agree, that's exactly what he did and he must be given credit, along with the players.

 

Never said we should match them man to man. But every side needs to have some kind of threat. There is absalutley no need to play Kay tongue and Pugh all in the middle. I still think we were pretty crap yesterday and we're very lucky to get a point. Even aspin admitted that.

[Jacko51]

You must really watch the same game as me! You often mirror my feelings exactly. Now I can only watch on iFollow but my views, for what they are worth, about the 3 midfielders you mention are similar to yours. Kay for me does a good job shielding the back four and his organisational work and encouragement are an integral part of the team. Tonge fascinates me because you can see what a good player he was but at times it is like watching a punch drunk, aged boxer. His head knows what he wants to do but his feet and speed of thought don't always get it right. His radar seems to have gone a bit too...his passes frequently stop the forward momentum as the receiver has to stop or even go back. Many times over the last weeks I've seen him spot the right pass but delay it and a foot comes in and he loses the ball. Pugh is a bits and bobs player but I think you're right he was match rusty yesterday.

The main problem as has been stated many times is when all 3 are played together. They are afraid to push on because they haven't got the legs any more and if they do push on and we lose the ball they can't get back quickly enough leaving us exposed. All 3 play and we have no attacking options and when they scored on 70 mins yesterday I thought that was it.

They have all done what they can this season in my eyes and it is churlish to keep being so negative about Tonge. Aspo knows more than I do but I sense he will relish having options next year in midfield but the "Old Guard" will be kept on to help with their experience/coaching.

We absolutely must get a LB. Howkins has shown the benefit of having some height, if not age, at the back. A commanding CB would help Smithy so much. We need legs and engine in the midfield and someone to play off Popey. (Think it's all been said before!) Hornby has come on and looked confident and composed yesterday. I would have been tempted to have followed through with one of my goalkicks from hand and "caught" that lad standing in front of him. (Thought they had to stand still?) We do need competition in goal though and I don't think Booty is the man, unfortunately.

Anyway, breathe easy Valiants until the retained list is released and transfers announced and then "Off we go again..."

 

I agree about Kay, Tonge and Pugh. They all have their good points but they all lack pace. If you play with one up front surely you need at least one of your central midfielders who can run beyond the striker. None of those three can do that so Pope becomes increasingly isolated.

[CambridgeDon]

Watching the highlights what a lovely little cross / pass from Dan Turner for Popey's goal, excellent play and superbly executed. Could you imagine Anton Forrester doing that? Or Barndoor Barnett?

 

Yes, and it was selfless too - a lot of other players would have risked a shot when it wasn't really on. As it was, his decision making and delivery were excellent and he wrong-footed their defender who just couldn't stop Pope's effort. It was lovely header too, not a dramatic thumper but lifted just enough to clear the defender and cross the line.

[CambridgeDon]

Easy to say in hindsight but maybe he should have gone with his left foot there.

 

That's just what I thought. A left foot clearance would naturally have gone further forward and probably missed Howkins or at least ricocheted in a forward direction. Aspo has a lot of work to do on our full back positions, not least finding players who normally play there!

[The Kalamazoo Kid]

Watching the highlights what a lovely little cross / pass from Dan Turner for Popey's goal, excellent play and superbly executed. Could you imagine Anton Forrester doing that? Or Barndoor Barnett?

 

I thought that Pope did really well to stretch and get his head on it - to then be able to guide his header over the defender and into the net was even more superb.

[PV1973]

That's just what I thought. A left foot clearance would naturally have gone further forward and probably missed Howkins or at least ricocheted in a forward direction. Aspo has a lot of work to do on our full back positions, not least finding players who normally play there!

We’re only in this mess because we have no left back. Get a proper left back in and a commanding more experienced centre half and we’re looking good. To be fair Montano and Gibbons have done well doing a job on the left.

[Essex Vale]

I agree about Kay, Tonge and Pugh. They all have their good points but they all lack pace. If you play with one up front surely you need at least one of your central midfielders who can run beyond the striker. None of those three can do that so Pope becomes increasingly isolated.

 

I also agree that Kay Tongue and Pugh all together leave us exposed for pace. They all have things to offer and if we can get a strong squad next year they could be rotated. Montano has done really well at left back. Kay has done well as a midfield anchor rather than CB. I would like to see Dan Turner played deeper as a midfielder pushing forward, rather like we did with Robbie Earle years ago. That may be a better option for him and it would give us legs as well. Of course, we need another strong stirker to work with Tom Pope.

[PV1973]

 

Love how the camera bloke gets up close on the goal celebrations, you can see just what it really means to the players.