Brexit again...

[geosname]

 

Without a caption I don't see the relevance of the photo.

2 guys with silly hats, 1 drinking, both apparently wanting to leave the EU.

We could guess the purpose of the photo but we may be completely wrong......

2 racist English males?

I am English, does that make me racist?

Identifying the English flag not the union ?

I identify the cross of St George as my flag and the union flag as our flag (the union).

Drinking in the street causes social disruption?

So does free speech at times but is recognised by most as a right.... isn't it?

Wearing silly hats gets your photo taken?

We have all had xmases like that..... haven't we?

Wanting to leave the EU makes you a social outcast and deserving of ridicule?

Surely not... not in the everyone is equal society we want to create.

 

Or you could just give us a clue?..... so we don't fall into the trap of making mistaken assumptions.

[geosname]

There are over 450 million people in Europe, the majority of whom see value and positives in being in the EU, while acknowledging its imperfections.

You think that 17 million in the UK know better.

 

And that 17 million isn't even the majority of the population in the UK. 16 million voted remain. Another 10 million plus did not vote to leave. And there are the other 1 million ex-pats abroad who were denied a vote. Yes, leavers won the vote but it was not an overwhelming endorsement to crash out and burn.

That's why MPs can't agree on a easy solution. Most of them can see the dangers and stupidity of driving off a cliff and want nothing to do with it.

 

Doing great until the last line... jezza has been a leaver since the 70s..... some have been leavers since before we joined... the mps can't agree because Tories and Labour downgraded it from a national issue to a party issue and battled away willy nilly with blinkers drawn tight.

I don't blame the people for voting the way they chose to, whichever way they voted. It was the wrong outcome in my opinion but what ensued from the politicos was disastrous on an epic scale... a bit like kids on the playground with a world war scenario... all to their own political ends come an election.... without even realising that whichever side you try to favour you lose 50%.

Tories excluding everyone to claim they delivered..... Labour opposing everything to show they are the stronger.

The sooner there is a "none of the above" option on the ballot papers the sooner they realise what we really think of them.

[Paul6754]

Industry in the EU is going into recession after a fresh fall in both new orders and exports,raising the risk of a full-blown economic slump.A meeting of EU finance ministers in Bucharest will discuss the implications for Italy’s huge public debt caused by the emigration of skilled workers.

 

If the EU goes into a full recession then it's certain the UK will also (in or out the EU), wouldn't it be better the UK was at the EU table being part of/leading efforts to prevent a recession (If true). The UK is both geographically and economically too close to the EU to be immune from any major EU events of this type.

[The_godfather]

If the EU goes into a full recession then it's certain the UK will also (in or out the EU), wouldn't it be better the UK was at the EU table being part of/leading efforts to prevent a recession (If true). The UK is both geographically and economically too close to the EU to be immune from any major EU events of this type.

 

I honestly don't know why we keep even bother answering to the utter mess of what passes as 'debate' from the standard few, that trot out the same old nonsense.

 

As far as I can tell from it, we are *clearly* better off out because it's a house of cards that is about to collapse.

 

Except we'll already be in a significantly weaker negotiating position having had to go cap in hand to everyone else apart from the Faroe Isles and Papua New Guinea to continue with trading agreements.

 

Not to mention that our diplomatic capital with the rest of the world is shrinking daily, which is significant. One of the reasons our economy is able to maintain a strong position is based on our place in the world order, which is largely predicated on historical achievements which now have no relevance.

 

And we should be looking to negotiate a significant free trade agreement that is, according to the logic, about to collapse.

 

And we're about to be trapped in the backstop by an entity which, according to the logic, is about to collapse.

 

Make of that what you will...

[geosname]

If the EU goes into a full recession then it's certain the UK will also (in or out the EU), wouldn't it be better the UK was at the EU table being part of/leading efforts to prevent a recession (If true). The UK is both geographically and economically too close to the EU to be immune from any major EU events of this type.

 

Difficult question to answer...... but I will try this way.

If the EU went into recession as you say wouldn't there be 27 nations fighting for their own economies to survive amongst the multinational EU trying to formulate a plan for the whole? If one solution fits all sizes wouldn't everyone take the exact same steps to avoid it? We know from experience that isn't the case so what could one or a small group of member nations do but follow the EU directives to their own detriment? As in the case of the country bailouts everyone had to contribute to whether they could afford it or not.

The allocation of mps is not done on an equal slice for each country, if the 5 countries at the top of the seat allocation list vote for something it has a majority, it's obviously not quite as simple as that but in principal it is.....

We know that mps and therefore meps are there to represent their electorate but how would they do that if they were part of the 22 dominated by the 5 on issues that could directly damage their country?

Don't be under the illusion that the European parliament is much different than the UK parliament.

Wouldn't it be fairer to have a multiple of the number of member states as meps and give every member state the same number of states? Given the fact that when/if the UK leaves their seats will be distributed unevenly, some getting multiple seats while some get none..... it's obviously decided differently,

Perhaps the EU could save millions of euros by not moving it's headquarters at least twice a year.... but I digress.

I would suggest that a democracy is based around the majority. When you have 5 member states with a majority over the 22 and with no way of electorally changing it it's a bit suspect.

Should we leave.... no.

Should we stay and try to change it.... yes.

If we do stay will we change it..... doubtful..... as we are one of the 5.

Do I like what the EU is trying to become.....

Do I think the UK could make it outside the EU...... yes.... but I still think we should stay in.... unfortunately most voters didn't agree when asked.

[TheSage]

 

100% spot on and that's what's worrying.

Leavers believe with equal force (and the validity of 52%) that they are all right and we just want out.

But when the divide is so close, on a knife edge, and emotions get ramped up with inflammatory language and so on then it becomes impossible to see a way out of this for the foreseeable future.

Whatever happens Leavers will continue banging the drum to get out, 100% out, while Remainers will keep on campaigning to go back in.

And like we keep saying when this present impasse is all over we'll have another two years at least to flesh out our future relationship. The frustration, anger, annoyance, emotion.. it all carries on.

 

That's why, personally, I'm furious with Cameron. Sure we had a fair number who disliked the EU but we didn't have what we've got today - pent up anger, marching on the streets, shouting down the phone on radio discussion programmes, MPs being assaulted in the street, and so on. And, I would say this wouldn't I, but some of the language in the Express, Mail etc has been appalling and fuelled greater problems.

 

Was it, is it, really that bad to warrant the awful upset and social divide its caused in this now polarised, broken Britain?

[whotobeakiller]

 

Was it, is it, really that bad to warrant the awful upset and social divide its caused in this now polarised, broken Britain?

 

Complete and utter rubbish Sage. The country was socially divided before the referendum. And I don't supose you are willing to even consider the two little hiccups riots that occured in 2011? Let's brush that one under the carpet

 

Let's brush under the carpet the Rotherham and Oxford and Telford scandals what also conveniently got brushed under the carpet by the then Labour council. Working class vs Middle class and their pompous disregard for their misfortune.

 

Let's pretend that there is no social class system where decent hard working people get left behind and still have to subsidise rich couples with combined income totals of £50,000 or more per year...let's ignore the unjust social system and the working classes whom have struggled to get by despite working 60 hours per week or more and still cannot get on the property ladder due to inflated high rents and low wage suppression

 

Don't make me laugh the Social gap is so wide now it will take another 25 years to catch up. Coming out the EU will mean those people whom have suffered may catch up a little but it won't be much.

 

The people whom have their own housing and pensions and still voted leave voted with their consciences and hats off to them

[geosname]

100% spot on and that's what's worrying.

Leavers believe with equal force (and the validity of 52%) that they are all right and we just want out.

But when the divide is so close, on a knife edge, and emotions get ramped up with inflammatory language and so on then it becomes impossible to see a way out of this for the foreseeable future.

Whatever happens Leavers will continue banging the drum to get out, 100% out, while Remainers will keep on campaigning to go back in.

And like we keep saying when this present impasse is all over we'll have another two years at least to flesh out our future relationship. The frustration, anger, annoyance, emotion.. it all carries on.

 

That's why, personally, I'm furious with Cameron. Sure we had a fair number who disliked the EU but we didn't have what we've got today - pent up anger, marching on the streets, shouting down the phone on radio discussion programmes, MPs being assaulted in the street, and so on. And, I would say this wouldn't I, but some of the language in the Express, Mail etc has been appalling and fuelled greater problems.

 

Was it, is it, really that bad to warrant the awful upset and social divide its caused in this now polarised, broken Britain?

 

The only way I can see out is to give both factions what they want..... although neither would be happy...... get out.... then a referendum on stay out or back in..... not ideal, still problematic, etc etc..... but it delivers on promises, although not all, and opens the door..... although there is no guarantee the result won't be the same.

[For Us All]

 

Is it Raheem Sterling and Danny Rose celebrating after the 5-1 win in Montenegro?

[TheSage]

The irony of drinking Belgium beer.

[For Us All]

The irony of drinking Belgium beer.

 

I blame their teammates,Vincent Company,Kevin De Bruyne,Jan Vertonghan and Toby Alderweireld.

[Jacko51]

She doesn't know who I'm talking about when I referred to you as 'he' seeing as you never had the decency to respond accordingly...hardly surprising as you don't want to be challenged on anything.

 

And you didn't respond to my post as you didn't want to be challenged!!

[whotobeakiller]

And you didn't respond to my post as you didn't want to be challenged!!

 

I challenged him not you...silence says a lot seems he has nothing to say back

[TheSage]

I don't always understand precisely what you are trying to say and because you never concede a valid point to anyone...

Your magisterial analysis of British society (above) was over my head.

 

But be careful what you wish for.

If we do crash out and end up suffering another period of austerity and depression I suggest to you that Corbyn's Labour Party might conceivably do very well at the next Election when the Tories will almost certainly lose their supremacy.

If Ireland, Scotland and many cities continue to vote Remain and those young people of 15-17 who could not vote last time follow the overwhelming trend of their fellow youngsters then anyone who might be open to a further vote and/or talks about getting closer to the EU again could easily win.

 

No one really knows what will happen but most young people wanted to remain and they'll be on the electoral roll in their droves very soon.

[Jacko51]

I challenged him not you.

 

Of course you did.