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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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A choice for the next generation, the current system is broken, the country is split between young and old, how the current parties will transform, evolve, disappear who knows.

 

My grandson and I are very close.I think we are obliged to do the ground work for the young.Buy gold is my advice.:wink:

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1)We can make our own trade deals with the rest of the world without the EU’s permission.

2) We wouldn’t have to contribute to the EU pot.(billions)

 

Ginge,why do you think the EU don’t want us to leave?Because they love us? Or possibly £££££ ??

 

1) what's wrong with our current trade deals? We're in the world's largest trading bloc. And being in the EU makes us more attractive for outside investment. The EU are very open to deals with the rest of the world.

2) we get a lot back.

 

Perhaps they see we're making a big mistake and know we're better off working together rather than sailing off on our own. They're certainly not stopping us from leaving.

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I think most would hope that a sensible deal can be reached still but it's increasingly looking like any deal is going to leave us a lot worse off than we were.

I know some feel that we'll gain from having more "sovereignty" and tighter control of borders, etc. but it's impossible to argue out on economic grounds and far better for peace and Ireland if we remain. Over three years talks I just can't see, overall, that any perceived benefits outweigh the advantages.

 

It would not be a re-run of the last vote if it came to that. It would be based on explicit terms and exactly what the deal is and what the ramifications are. That's different. Last time it was simply in or out. And the problem all along is that there have been lots of different varieties of leave, as well as an awful lot of porkies told to us about how easy and simple it would all be. But that has been blown out of the water because we never had a workable and realistic plan, just bombast and false promises.

 

And I still maintain that democracy isn't static and that mature people do re-think and reassess things as time passes.

If you are a demolition worker and told to blow up a building do you go ahead when the police have told you there might be an old lady in there? Of course you do! You have made a decision and you're sticking to it!!

 

It couldn't be a two choice answer though sage because there are three choices available in reality..... Mays deal, no deal or stay in..... you will admit I hope that in that case it would be a heavily biased answer.... brexiteers would be split and remainers would walk it... given that many would be Pd off and wouldn't vote.

Would it have been acceptable in the original referendum to have 3 questions?

Leave.

Remain with Labour in charge.

Remain with the Tories in charge.

 

Remain vote splits in half.... leave wins by 30%?... perhaps more.

 

Splitting the opposition vote isn't really democratic.....

 

Even if remain win a new vote do you honestly think leavers will just shrug their shoulders and accept it?.... like remainers did?

 

Whatever arguments you raise for a new vote can be raised for a third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth etc etc addinfinitum.... and we just stand still.

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1) what's wrong with our current trade deals? We're in the world's largest trading bloc. And being in the EU makes us more attractive for outside investment. The EU are very open to deals with the rest of the world.

2) we get a lot back.

 

Perhaps they see we're making a big mistake and know we're better off working together rather than sailing off on our own. They're certainly not stopping us from leaving.

 

Last line is suspect...... which side is insisting on a hard boarder?...... who will enforce it?..... neither side will so what's the problem?..... a bit oversimplified but perhaps it needs to be to make it work..... perhaps everyone is over thinking it.

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A fairer tax system would be different to what we have, VAT affects the lower paid more, Income tax could be steeper, council bands are 20 years out of date and should not be capped, tax evasion, wealth taxes (on the wealthy not the average joe), plenty to go. Payback? Crossrail in London maybe £20Billion when it finishes will give faster links and capacity, but the financial benefits go to the construction firms and their employees, property owners close to the stations, property developers in new areas now viable. However a few years away from an election.

 

The only thing I will say in reply mate is that their isn't and never was a fair tax system.

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I take your point, geo, but as you said a few pages back we've got ourselves into this hole and split the country in a variety of different ways, so how on earth we glue the broken bits back together I really don't know.

The 52% of course will feel bitter but there were almost as many remainers so it wasn't an overwhelming vote for an extreme option as the ERG are requesting. 70;30 maybe so but not 52:48. It surely has to be a soft compromise.

But as I say, from what I see and read and hear over the past three years it isn't as easy and as simple as we were told it would be - and that's the reason why I'm wondering if another public say wouldn't make sense. I accept people disagree with that but no one surely ever imagined it would pan out like this and we'd be asking for extension after extension. I'd say that 99% of folk felt sure after all this planning that we'd be out by now with everything resolved amicably to our benefit.

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Indeed Howjy. So what makes you think the rates would change once we left when I don't think they have ever been lower than 15% in history?

 

We would have a choice ,chesh.At the moment we are obliged to add the 15% VAT.Like I said there may not be a great change,but we would have the option to set our own rates.

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