England talk

[Paul6754]

A country of 50 million people will hardly ever produce as many quality footballers (the quality required to win major tournaments) as the population of the rest of the world combined hence the EPL will always contain a high percentage of overseas players which may likely stifle the emergence of English talent unless some type of quota system is introduced, it's the simple law of averages.

 

One answer is for England and the other three home nation countries to adopt the same qualification rules as the rest of the world.

[Jacko51]

A country of 50 million people will hardly ever produce as many quality footballers (the quality required to win major tournaments) as the population of the rest of the world combined hence the EPL will always contain a high percentage of overseas players which may likely stifle the emergence of English talent unless some type of quota system is introduced, it's the simple law of averages.

 

One answer is for England and the other three home nation countries to adopt the same qualification rules as the rest of the world.

 

Once we've properly Brexited and got rid of this freedom of movement malarkey we won't have all these Johnny Foreigners coming over from Europe nicking all the jobs in our Premier League teams so we'll be able to win the World Cup then.

[Paul6754]

Once we've properly Brexited and got rid of this freedom of movement malarkey we won't have all these Johnny Foreigners coming over from Europe nicking all the jobs in our Premier League teams so we'll be able to win the World Cup then.

 

With no quota system in place and the EPL awash with money the supply will always be high and with Owners/fans and EPL clubs desperate for success there will always be demand so England may as well ride the wave as the likes of Spain do.

[valiant_593]

Once we've properly Brexited and got rid of this freedom of movement malarkey we won't have all these Johnny Foreigners coming over from Europe nicking all the jobs in our Premier League teams so we'll be able to win the World Cup then.

 

Is this serious or tongue in cheek? I can't tell... hopefully

The latter....

[Fosse69]

With no quota system in place and the EPL awash with money the supply will always be high and with Owners/fans and EPL clubs desperate for success there will always be demand so England may as well ride the wave as the likes of Spain do.

But Spain`s wave includes 1 world cup and 2 euros, where are our trophies and club trophies this century?

[Paul6754]

But Spain`s wave includes 1 world cup and 2 euros,

 

Fosse that's the point, correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be because the rules chop and change) but both Marco Senna and Diego Costa, even though they were born in Brazil, became eligible to play for the Spanish National team despite having no parents or grandparents that were born in Spain. In effect Spain "imported" these world class footballers into their national team.

 

The rules for eligibility to play for England or any other country are the same apart from one. To play for England the rule that is different is, "He has engaged in a minimum of five years education under the age of 18 in England", whereas for all other countries the rule is, "He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 in that country". The same rule which applies to England also applies to the other home countries.

 

Hence in the future, to fill the void of the lack of world class players eligible to play for England, England could adopt the same eligibility rules as all other countries or at least make it a level playing field either way.

[For Us All]

A country of 50 million people will hardly ever produce as many quality footballers (the quality required to win major tournaments) as the population of the rest of the world combined hence the EPL will always contain a high percentage of overseas players which may likely stifle the emergence of English talent unless some type of quota system is introduced, it's the simple law of averages.

 

One answer is for England and the other three home nation countries to adopt the same qualification rules as the rest of the world.

 

Do Germany win more trophies than us simply because they have 20% fewer foreign players in their top league than us,or is there more to it than that?

[Jacko51]

Is this serious or tongue in cheek? I can't tell... hopefully

The latter....

 

I’m disappointed you had to ask!!!

[Paul6754]

Do Germany win more trophies than us simply because they have 20% fewer foreign players in their top league than us,or is there more to it than that?

 

FUA, size of population plays a big part. It's no coincidence that of the major football playing nations, Brazil and Germany have the largest population and have won the most trophies whereas a country like Luxembourg has one of the smallest and don't do well competition wise. Population wise Germany is getting on for 2x England and Brazil 5x.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

A country of 50 million people will hardly ever produce as many quality footballers (the quality required to win major tournaments) as the population of the rest of the world combined hence the EPL will always contain a high percentage of overseas players which may likely stifle the emergence of English talent unless some type of quota system is introduced, it's the simple law of averages.

 

One answer is for England and the other three home nation countries to adopt the same qualification rules as the rest of the world.

 

We did in ‘66, ‘70, ‘90 and ‘96. The quality of the players just clearly isn’t there.

 

Some of the namesseen as regulars like Cahill, Hart, Henderson and Sterling were embarrassing to mention when I was discussing with a couple of Germans this week.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Once we've properly Brexited and got rid of this freedom of movement malarkey we won't have all these Johnny Foreigners coming over from Europe nicking all the jobs in our Premier League teams so we'll be able to win the World Cup then.

 

Yeah all our problems will be solved, maybe we should get Farage in as a manager. We should produce some exceptional right wingers 😂

[Bea Smith]

FUA, size of population plays a big part. It's no coincidence that of the major football playing nations, Brazil and Germany have the largest population and have won the most trophies whereas a country like Luxembourg has one of the smallest and don't do well competition wise. Population wise Germany is getting on for 2x England and Brazil 5x.

 

I'm really not disputing it just for the sake of it, but I have to disagree on population size.

 

China, India, Indonesia, the USA have all failed to qualify I think, and Russia have not been a strong football power over the years. Conversely, Honduras and Panama and Iceland are at the finals in Russia.

 

We've seen Holland consistently better than all these for 40 years until recently, Belgium are also a string side, Iceland and Wales in the last Euro's all prove that small nations can do remarkably well.

 

France just got held 0-0 at home by Luxembourg, Japan have a large population and a poor team.

 

I'd say it is partly to do with culture, and history, tradition, also how much football is played by kids on the streets (not a lot here) and whether the players end up as spoilt, lifestyle celebrities with too much money and not enough ambition by the time they are about 20.

 

Logically, I cannot see any reason why England should ever be anywhere as good as they were before, sadly also Holland, and in the future countries like China, some Middle Eastern countries and more South and Central American teams will prosper.

[Paul6754]

I'm really not disputing it just for the sake of it, but I have to disagree on population size.

 

China, India, Indonesia, the USA have all failed to qualify I think, and Russia have not been a strong football power over the years. Conversely, Honduras and Panama and Iceland are at the finals in Russia.

 

We've seen Holland consistently better than all these for 40 years until recently, Belgium are also a string side, Iceland and Wales in the last Euro's all prove that small nations can do remarkably well.

 

France just got held 0-0 at home by Luxembourg, Japan have a large population and a poor team.

 

I'd say it is partly to do with culture, and history, tradition, also how much football is played by kids on the streets (not a lot here) and whether the players end up as spoilt, lifestyle celebrities with too much money and not enough ambition by the time they are about 20.

 

Logically, I cannot see any reason why England should ever be anywhere as good as they were before, sadly also Holland, and in the future countries like China, some Middle Eastern countries and more South and Central American teams will prosper.

 

In the case of China, India, Indonesia and the USA, that's why I used the term "Major footballing nations" meaning where football is a/the major sport and there is an infrastructure and a long history of professional soccer/leagues. Every so often a "smaller" country will produce good players and some very, very good ones and then enjoy success eg Northern Ireland/George Best, Holland/Cryuff/Neeskens/Krol and Belgium now etc, etc.

 

Culture, history and tradition of a country obviously play a part as well as population size. I wonder how many potentially very good footballers are lost to Rugby, I could imagine the likes of Barry john, Phil Edwards, Jeremy Guscott, Owen Farrell or Ellory Hanley would have been more than useful footballers.

 

I agree with the tenet of lack of English World Class footballers at the moment but it will turn around some time.

[philpvfc]

Germany's population is no way near double that of England's plus England has a larger population than Spain who have been the world number 1 for quite a few years.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=germany+population&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spain+population&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

[Bea Smith]

In the case of China, India, Indonesia and the USA, that's why I used the term "Major footballing nations" meaning where football is a/the major sport and there is an infrastructure and a long history of professional soccer/leagues. Every so often a "smaller" country will produce good players and some very, very good ones and then enjoy success eg Northern Ireland/George Best, Holland/Cryuff/Neeskens/Krol and Belgium now etc, etc.

 

Culture, history and tradition of a country obviously play a part as well as population size. I wonder how many potentially very good footballers are lost to Rugby, I could imagine the likes of Barry john, Phil Edwards, Jeremy Guscott, Owen Farrell or Ellory Hanley would have been more than useful footballers.

 

I agree with the tenet of lack of English World Class footballers at the moment but it will turn around some time.

 

 

 

It's a fascinating debate, and I'm glad we can discuss it without any personal animosity.

But although I'd love England to reign supreme again, I cannot see it ever happening, as there is no reason why it should.

I agree about other sports and the more passionate seem to be lost to those sports.

You are also right about Northern Ireland with Best, and Wales more recently with Gareth Bale being good examples of tiny countries thriving with an exceptional player.

However, Holland's mastery for such a tiny population was very long lasted - from the early 1970's through to 2012 or even later, and even though it pains me to say so, I cannot see them regaining their former status either.

Time will tell, but I suspect small well organised nations like Iceland, and perhaps Slovakia, Belgium, Portugal, Switzerland and a few others will continue to provide shocks to the more established ones.

We've already had Greece, Denmark and Portugal win the Euros in fairly recent times, none of whom have large populations.

There are probably even more aspects to this equation that affect things too, and time will tell, but I don't expect England's half-hearted players (Kane and sometimes a couple of others excepted) to be more interested in their big cars and hairstyles than representing their country.

 

It almost seems a chore for some of them lately.