England talk

[Paul6754]

Germany's population is no way near double that of England's plus England has a larger population than Spain who have been the world number 1 for quite a few years.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=germany+population&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spain+population&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

 

I actually said "getting on for double" or something similar, it's about 1.6x, 53mil:82mil.

 

Population size is not the sole reason for football success, as Bea points out there are other factors too, Culture, history, tradition, availability of a network of quality coaches, professional leagues etc, etc.

 

Until 2008 Spain were the perennial under achievers in world football it was the emergence of world class talent all at same time like Xavi, Iniesta, David Villa and others that enabled them to win European and World Cup tournaments. Same with Engalnd in 1966, Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, Gordon banks and Geoff Hurst etc who were all still together in Mexico 1970 only to come up against probably the best football team there's ever been or likely to be ie Brazil.

[TheSage]

A lot of experts reckon that the 1970 team was even better than the 1966 one and if I remember rightly Jeff Astle missed a good chance to equalise in the game against Brazil when Banks made his famous save. Many of the English lads were confident of beating the Brazilians if they'd played them again but the West Germany nightmare game put paid to that! But that 1970 final was a master-class by the Brazilians wasn't it?

 

It's impossibly hard to know/predict when we might have another world class team. We've had a smattering of very good players like Gerard, Cole & Shearer, Scholes, Gascoigne & Lampard, but never achieved much in reality. I really don't know what the answer is.

[For Us All]

A lot of experts reckon that the 1970 team was even better than the 1966 one and if I remember rightly Jeff Astle missed a good chance to equalise in the game against Brazil when Banks made his famous save. Many of the English lads were confident of beating the Brazilians if they'd played them again but the West Germany nightmare game put paid to that! But that 1970 final was a master-class by the Brazilians wasn't it?

 

It's impossibly hard to know/predict when we might have another world class team. We've had a smattering of very good players like Gerard, Cole & Shearer, Scholes, Gascoigne & Lampard, but never achieved much in reality. I really don't know what the answer is.

 

Playing a tournament in England usually helps?😁

[Fosse69]

A lot of experts reckon that the 1970 team was even better than the 1966 one and if I remember rightly Jeff Astle missed a good chance to equalise in the game against Brazil when Banks made his famous save. Many of the English lads were confident of beating the Brazilians if they'd played them again but the West Germany nightmare game put paid to that! But that 1970 final was a master-class by the Brazilians wasn't it?

 

It's impossibly hard to know/predict when we might have another world class team. We've had a smattering of very good players like Gerard, Cole & Shearer, Scholes, Gascoigne & Lampard, but never achieved much in reality. I really don't know what the answer is.

Not many English Premier League managers about, Ramsey took a 3rd Division club to become champions of England in their first season in the top flight, impossible today. Maybe Eddie Howe is the closest we will get. As for player experience, our players get less game time at the top level compared to other countries. I am afraid international success is not a priority in an England controlled by the Premier League TV setup.

[For Us All]

I actually said "getting on for double" or something similar, it's about 1.6x, 53mil:82mil.

 

Population size is not the sole reason for football success, as Bea points out there are other factors too, Culture, history, tradition, availability of a network of quality coaches, professional leagues etc, etc.

 

Until 2008 Spain were the perennial under achievers in world football it was the emergence of world class talent all at same time like Xavi, Iniesta, David Villa and others that enabled them to win European and World Cup tournaments. Same with Engalnd in 1966, Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, Gordon banks and Geoff Hurst etc who were all still together in Mexico 1970 only to come up against probably the best football team there's ever been or likely to be ie Brazil.

 

 

Brazil's population was 207m at the last count which obviously gives them a better chance than most and probably goes some way in explaining their five wins?Interestingly enough,Brazilian players topped the list of foreign players in the Bundesliga as well.

Only eight countries have ever won the world cup and six have done it on their own turf so bring it on,we must be due?

[Paul6754]

A lot of experts reckon that the 1970 team was even better than the 1966 one and if I remember rightly Jeff Astle missed a good chance to equalise in the game against Brazil when Banks made his famous save. Many of the English lads were confident of beating the Brazilians if they'd played them again but the West Germany nightmare game put paid to that! But that 1970 final was a master-class by the Brazilians wasn't it?

 

It's impossibly hard to know/predict when we might have another world class team. We've had a smattering of very good players like Gerard, Cole & Shearer, Scholes, Gascoigne & Lampard, but never achieved much in reality. I really don't know what the answer is.

 

Yep, many pundits considered the 1970's team better than the '66 team, Jeff Astle missed a good chance in the Brazil game but to be fair he hadn't been on the pitch for long. I remember it being an absolute classic and Bobby Moore being outstanding. The first 70 mins of the quarter final vs West Germany was one of the most one sided international games between top teams I'd ever seen, England should have been out of sight by half time, one goalkeeping error by Bonetti and the rest is history.

 

The Brazil team was incredible, probably the only team ever virtually guaranteed to score one more than the opposition, their weakness was the goalkeeper, Felix. The final goal vs Italy being characteristic of their play, the pass and body language of Pele when he made the pass to Carlos Alberto to score showed utter mastery, just brilliant.

 

I've met quite a few Brazilians in the US watching my son play soccer and they also remember the game against England and the 1970 world cup finals with the same awesome feeling.

[Paul6754]

Brazil's population was 207m at the last count which obviously gives them a better chance than most and probably goes some way in explaining their five wins?Interestingly enough,Brazilian players topped the list of foreign players in the Bundesliga as well.

Only eight countries have ever won the world cup and six have done it on their own turf so bring it on,we must be due?

 

For some reason I remembered it as 250m, being a football mad nation it's no surprise they produce so many good players.

[For Us All]

I still say that the six week winter break the Bundesliga has,gives Germany that extra advantage in tournaments?

[TheSage]

I think you have a point.

I notice in rugby union that lots of top players are getting injured because they play too much.

It must be something to think about. But Sky money talks!

[tommytunstall]

What a wonderful display by England Under 17s to reach the World Cup final by stuffing Brazil, the team is full of wonderful footballers.

 

Which begs the question why is our full England team so rubbish, when you have a conveyer belt of cracking young players?

[Tomo]

What a wonderful display by England Under 17s to reach the World Cup final by stuffing Brazil, the team is full of wonderful footballers.

 

Which begs the question why is our full England team so rubbish, when you have a conveyer belt of cracking young players?

 

Because once they get a bit older, most English youngsters come up against tried & tested European imports (who have already got the experience in their own country) as competition to play in their club's starting 11. Very little chance for experience in first team games, so they get left behind in development, & become cast offs, ending up in Championship/L1/L2 etc.

 

Teams in the Prem are scared of relegation & losing the TV money, so won't take risks on loads of unproven, error-prone youngsters. Polar opposite system of the top leagues in Europe, which is why England will never compete at the top level internationally.

[Bea Smith]

Because once they get a bit older, most English youngsters come up against tried & tested European imports (who have already got the experience in their own country) as competition to play in their club's starting 11. Very little chance for experience in first team games, so they get left behind in development, & become cast offs, ending up in Championship/L1/L2 etc.

 

Teams in the Prem are scared of relegation & losing the TV money, so won't take risks on loads of unproven, error-prone youngsters. Polar opposite system of the top leagues in Europe, which is why England will never compete at the top level internationally.

 

 

Absolutely agree with the points above.

 

I would also add that the U-17s and other younger teams still have the 'hunger' of ambition and have not been spoiled by the fast car, endless riches, flashy apartments, celebrity nonsense lifestyles.

This concentration on celebrity life seems to remove, or at least distract from, hunger for the game in some fairly average England players in their twenties.

[Paul6754]

What a wonderful display by England Under 17s to reach the World Cup final by stuffing Brazil, the team is full of wonderful footballers.

 

Which begs the question why is our full England team so rubbish, when you have a conveyer belt of cracking young players?

 

As they get older the vibrancy and creativity is often coached out of most of them in favor of possession football. One of the best examples was Ray Wilkins, in his late teens/early 20's he was a goal scoring, attacking, exciting midfield player, he went to Man U under the tutelage of Dave Sexton and turned into a side/back passing also ran.

[Tomo]

Absolutely agree with the points above.

 

I would also add that the U-17s and other younger teams still have the 'hunger' of ambition and have not been spoiled by the fast car, endless riches, flashy apartments, celebrity nonsense lifestyles.

This concentration on celebrity life seems to remove, or at least distract from, hunger for the game in some fairly average England players in their twenties.

 

Agree, the lifestyle & amount of money chucked around is mental. This is a subject I could go on about for ages haha, winds me right up. It's really gutting that even though I'm still really young & have years ahead of me, I know that because Sky will carry on throwing crazy amounts of money at the PL, I will probably never witness a great England team (or a really exciting international tournament) in my lifetime.

 

Makes me even more angry that everybody will continue to cater to the league of greed, but then act all surprised when England play badly, & pretend to be confused as to why this is. Unbelievably, they then intervene in the lower league tournaments, feeding us some absolute crap about it will help develop young English players further! As if somehow, 3 games a season against lower league opposition (who are resting half their side because they don't give a toss) is sufficient enough to prepare them for life in the PL & internationally!?

[For Us All]

Congratulations to the U17's team on reaching another World Cup Final.Our youngsters are being betrayed by the PL and I firmly believe that with this current system we can safely say that Sky and BT are also complicit.

The strength of the PL will always be at the expense of our international team under current conditions.