Scouting good enough?

[TheSage]

Just a random thought after I read the short article about the whereabouts of the summer triallists.

 

Is our scouting system letting us down? Is it good enough?

 

For the past 18 months we don't appear to have unearthed many good players. It's early days for some, I know, but we haven't yet seen a great deal of promise from any of them have we?

 

We can all reel off names from the past who we picked up for nowt and who proved to be very good lads for us, but recently? I'm unsure.

At least Page brought the likes of Alnwick, Grant & AJLS here, amongst others. Bruno last year? Possibly Jones though I don't think he's a Bradford regular is he? This year? Hopefully I'm proved wrong by Xmas and we can all say with great delight that we've discovered 2-3 gems but at the moment it doesn't look great.

 

Have we a problem in judging players's ability and in spotting real talent? What's Ray Williams up to?

[Erniemossrules]

The question is does Brown actually see these players before signing them.

Obviously he sees the ones bought in on trial but the others like Kay,Davis and Wilson are they bought in on a whim by being Popeys mates and his so called many contacts.

Another club trying to offload players is going to give them a glowing reference.Darren Wrack as chief scout must be useless judging by the players being signed.

[Sandyford_Lion]

Just a random thought after I read the short article about the whereabouts of the summer triallists.

 

Is our scouting system letting us down? Is it good enough?

 

For the past 18 months we don't appear to have unearthed many good players. It's early days for some, I know, but we haven't yet seen a great deal of promise from any of them have we?

 

We can all reel off names from the past who we picked up for nowt and who proved to be very good lads for us, but recently? I'm unsure.

At least Page brought the likes of Alnwick, Grant & AJLS here, amongst others. Bruno last year? Possibly Jones though I don't think he's a Bradford regular is he? This year? Hopefully I'm proved wrong by Xmas and we can all say with great delight that we've discovered 2-3 gems but at the moment it doesn't look great.

 

Have we a problem in judging players's ability and in spotting real talent? What's Ray Williams up to?

 

Short answer YES

 

It has been non existent in bringing in good players for a long time

 

Money does play a big part of it

 

Loans from Premier and Championship clubs must cost very little

but unfortunately you get very little in return

 

Against Crewe we had our fair share of loan players and yet not one

looked anywhere near as good as Cooper from Crewe

 

What I also have to add is that we expect too much form them when we play

and depend on four or five in a team at one time, with very little experience around them.

 

Some of our players could look better , in a better team with more experience around them

[darren1810]

Lainton... injury plagued career

Wilson...proven quality playing over 30 games in L1 promotion team

Denton... promising left back recently signed 3 yr extension at Leeds.

Kay..bags of experience just what needed in L2

Smith... still raw but young enough to learn

Worrall...30 odd games in Millwall promotion side

Middleton...25 plus games in Doncaster promotion side

Harness...played a few in Championship so on paper a promising signing

Whitfield...40 odd games at Yeovil with rave reviews

Pope...prodigal son returned

Barnett... decent track record in L1 and L2

 

Based on the above...my opinion... Is that recruitment is not the issue.

Anyone tell me that the above mob are not good enough to challenge ?

Recruitment is ok.

The issue is Brown who has no clue on best team or formation ...simples

[Warren]

On Championship Manager you can see the big national and international scouting teams a top club has. So little Port Vale with one scout, if in post at the time, has an owner that appoints a foreign manager and signs a large number of lower league foreign players with no experience of the UK or football in England. The best I can say is that this was a high risk strategy and the risk came to fruition.

 

And so to now. We still only have one scout and that is our resource and capability. We have Brown who seems to have extensive connections from his long playing carrer. He has decided to turnover the whole playing squad and retain just a few players including primarily young players. So that is one strategy, but perhaps through necessity high risk. We are also in League 2 with ownership turmoil and so less attractive than last year.

 

It's a difficult job. But to me we have signed 3 players from Bury, one who is old, one who can't sprint and one who is injury prone. We have then signed / loaned a lot of players in what seems an unbalanced way. Until recent signings we had a big hole in central midfield. We have an army of wingers and central defenders. This is easy to say I would have gone for a smaller higher quality squad. That said I guess if my judgement had been wrong I would be stuffed and by signing a wider field of players there is more chance of turning up trumps.

 

But my main issues now are team selection, tactics and organisation at things like free kicks. I think we are rubbish and despair at what I am seeing, accepting we are also being hit with bad luck.

 

In terms of scouting opposition, well you need to spot that a side like Notts County are a big team and play in to front man. It would be useful to note Akinfenwa at Wycombe and mark him properly. We ain't done good but that is down to the manager and players not the scout.

 

I ramble on - fed up - don't like being bittom.

[darren1810]

Recruitment clearly plays a big part. Answer me this truthfully without taking into account our league position.

Would Vale fans be happy with the recruitment of Duffy Dickinson Tootle Stead and Ameobi ?

I certainly would not be. Over the hill journeymen . If we had signed those players OVF would of self combusted.

Very early days and I myself thought they were a dreadful side but they sit 2nd with a 5-1-1 record.

Therefore again it is Nolan getting the maximum out of his players. We aren't even getting 50% .

If Michael Brown was in charge of Exeter or Notts County I guarantee they wouldn't be top 2

[Wrex]

On paper many of the signings seemed decent. So is the manager not getting the best out of them or has the scout not scouted them properly to see if they are as good as their CV would suggest?

 

Either way we have Darren Wreck as chief scout, the coaching staff and maybe a few others doing freelance? An impossible task for such a small team (team of one?) to build an entirely new squad.

[tommytunstall]

It's not just the Scouting system, the whole club root and branch is rotten to the core.

[Warren]

Recruitment clearly plays a big part. Answer me this truthfully without taking into account our league position.

Would Vale fans be happy with the recruitment of Duffy Dickinson Tootle Stead and Ameobi ?

I certainly would not be. Over the hill journeymen . If we had signed those players OVF would of self combusted.

Very early days and I myself thought they were a dreadful side but they sit 2nd with a 5-1-1 record.

Therefore again it is Nolan getting the maximum out of his players. We aren't even getting 50% .

If Michael Brown was in charge of Exeter or Notts County I guarantee they wouldn't be top 2

 

I thought the managers of Wycombe, Crewe and Notts County got the best out of squads of limited ability that do not have better players than us. We have lost most games because we go behind and can't score. I thought the Pope through on goal got tackled incident against Notts County was one of the most farcical I have seen in over 40 years watching games. At 58 years old I fancy my chances of out sprinting Pope.

[jjvale_03]

Anyone who thinks we actually scout players and/or have a strategy in place regarding recruitment and retention of players is deluded.

 

I imagine what really happens is some dodgy agencies (most of the reputable ones won't deal with us) shovel a load of garbage in our direction and we take some of it. You really think we knew who any of those terrible 'keepers from last season were before their agent called?

[PVTony]

Thread: Scouting good enough?

 

The current league(s) position suggests that it is difficult to find anything at the club that is good enough.

The rot starts at the top and it spreads downwards.

[RailwayRowdy]

Gone, sadly, are the days when managers did their homework on players. In bygone days Rudge would be out every midweek watching players for himself. Hence his knowledge of players was second to none. Managers today are too lazy to put in the miles on the motorway to find out for themselves about players. You reap what you sow and consequently our harvest has been bare since "The Great One's" departure. Thanks for that 🔔

[PVTony]

Thread: Scouting good enough?

 

The current league(s) position suggests that it is difficult to find anything at the club that is good enough.

The rot starts at the top and it spreads downwards.

 

Interest, Imagination, enthusiasm and positiveness,good business sense,selection and disciplining of staff, great P.R. and club management, politeness and self discipline SHOULD start at the top and spread downwards.

[Santa]

To my mind, the coaching staff weren't prepared for the reality of attracting players to a club like Vale, both during the summer and in the January transfer window.

 

Anyone who has heard John Rudge talk about getting players through the door will know how many knockbacks and dead ends he had. It's not just a case of getting beaten by other clubs offering better money, we've suffered serious reputational damage during the last couple of years in football circles.

[smithie]

To my mind, the coaching staff weren't prepared for the reality of attracting players to a club like Vale, both during the summer and in the January transfer window.

 

Anyone who has heard John Rudge talk about getting players through the door will know how many knockbacks and dead ends he had. It's not just a case of getting beaten by other clubs offering better money, we've suffered serious reputational damage during the last couple of years in football circles.

 

True, no doubt due to NS' treatment of Rob Page and his halving of pay packets for some players. Throw in his madcap experiment and social media gaffes and it's not exactly a destination of choice for potential employees.