Post Manchester Arena explosion - views and opinions...

[Fosse69]

I guess that is the problem. There should certainly be more stringent checks on those travelling to Syria, Libya etc and then attempting to return to the UK though.

UK residents could be warned that visits to certain countries would not allow them to return to the UK, likewise non-UK visitors could be denied entry if visits made to certain countries, unless on certified trips. But how would it be enforced? Some countries operate similar rules, but people then hold several passports to ensure visits are not stamped if a problem. Passports are more sophisticated nowadays, finger prints, eye and facial recognition facilities are available, but are not used everywhere.

[For Us All]

Paris, Brussels, Orlando, Nice, Munich, Berlin, London, Stockholm, Manchester...

 

Message to all governments out there.

Spot the common denominator and act to prevent another atrocity.Please don't say it's 'Normal' or else we'll be having vigils every month?

[mr.hobblesworth]

read my post again?

 

I didn't say islam owes an apology.

 

I saw a quote from a British muslim yesterday along the lines of 'Islam has nothing to apologise for, this was the act of a criminal not a muslim'

 

I must say I was absolutely disgusted and left fuming by the comment.

 

seems to say otherwise.

[Davebrad]

No it's ******* not. It's the fault of the parasite that lives off it. The Quran forbids violence.

does it - quote...

 

 

Quran (17:33) "And do not kill anyone which Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause." An important verse that is used by martyrdom bombers to not only justify their own deaths, but that of other bystanders who might be believers as well. The end justifies the means, with the goal being the defeat of the kafir and the establishment of Islamic rule.

 

The dark-eyed virgins are mentioned in several places as well, including verses 44:54 and 52:20. For those who swing the other way, there are "perpetual youth" verse 6:17, otherwise known as "boys" in verses 52:24 and 76:19.

 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

 

Suicide is against Islam. Martyrdom is not.

"Suicide bomber" is a derogatory term invented in the West to describe what in Islam is known as a Fedayeen or Shahid - a martyr. The point of the bomber isn't suicide - it is to kill infidels in battle.* This is not just permitted by Muhammad, but encouraged with liberal promises of earthy rewards in heaven including food and sex.

 

 

We know the Quran orders believers to fight in combat against those who are the oppressors, aggressors and terrorists and those who are assaulting and killing the innocent men, women and children. But it gives out clear orders - NOT TO Fight against those who are not fighting against you...

[mr.hobblesworth]

My mistake then. Obviously there must be another reason all these muslims have slaughtered hundreds if not thousands of innocent people in the west this past year.

 

Why do Sikhs not blow themselves up every other week?

What about Jews?

What about Christians?

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

 

one of the first results that comes up on google if you type in quran and violence.

 

After a brief 30 second look, here's my favourite..."I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

 

If we could click a button and erase all knowledge, signs and evidence of religion on earth, it would be a significantly happier and safer place.

 

The Bible contains similar lines advocating violence and oppression. The fault lies with the individual and their spin on it, not the religion itself. That site is so anti-Muslim!

 

Completely agree with last sentence.

[Warren]

In root cause analysis an important decision is to determine the start point. It is from that point forward in time you look at what went wrong and how it could be prevented in future.

 

So let's suppose we take the start of the analysis to be how the terrorist began to be radicalised. That means the development of the mental state, failure to detect and address it, becoming part of an Islamist network, access to explosives, the bombing etc. would be examined. It strikes me that a lot of resources and luck are needed in actions to detect and prevent by all the possible government agencies would be one conclusion of the analysis.

 

What I am going to say next comes immediately into a clash with political correctness. But maybe the correct starting point is when the terrorist's parents were allowed to come to the UK. If that had never happened then Manchester would most likely have never occurred. Prevention might also be zero cost.

 

So looking at all the refugees and economic migrants wanting to come to the UK now. These are penetrated by all sorts of current and future wrongdoers. The root cause analysis I have just briefly completed suggests we should assist with international aid in region, but not bring refugees from failing states into the country Any refugees let in must have been vetted and have a very high level of acquired assurance that they pose no or very little security risk.

[Jacko51]

My mistake then. Obviously there must be another reason all these muslims have slaughtered hundreds if not thousands of innocent people in the west this past year.

 

Why do Sikhs not blow themselves up every other week?

What about Jews?

What about Christians?

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

 

one of the first results that comes up on google if you type in quran and violence.

 

After a brief 30 second look, here's my favourite..."I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

 

If we could click a button and erase all knowledge, signs and evidence of religion on earth, it would be a significantly happier and safer place.

 

The terrorists are not Muslims in the religious sense, they are Islamists. Islam is a religion of peace. Islamism is a political movement aimed at establishing a worldwide caliphate under sharia law. Tarring all Muslims with the same brush is the same as blaming Protestantism for the Ku Klux Klan or blaming Catholicism for the IRA.

 

I don't have a solution to the problem of Islamic terrorism but I'm pretty sure than any solution needs to have Muslims on our side, not alienated from us.

[Warren]

The Bible contains similar lines advocating violence and oppression. The fault lies with the individual and their spin on it, not the religion itself. That site is so anti-Muslim!

 

Completely agree with last sentence.

 

I guess I accept that any religion or other form of ethical guidance can be misinterpreted and lead to screwed up thinking in individuals and groups. So I accept the dharma in Buddhism won't stop errant monks murdering so called non Buddhists in places like Myanmar.

 

But in an advanced society, like ours, if I called on social media like onevalefan, on a repeated basis, for the murder of people or groups of people, then I am likely to be charged with inciting hatred etc.

 

However, if this is written in a holy book used to preach in places of worship and schools, it's OK apparently? Religious tolerance is partly based on double standards, turning a blind eye, rationalising meaning etc.

[Valiant62]

My root cause analysis would include failure to divest from the arms trade and reliance on oil.

[geosname]

In my opinion.... and it wont please everyone and isnt designed to please anyone....

Cutting the head off the snake is pointless as it will grow at least one other at each attempt, it may slow it down for a while but it will continue to crawl and grow by creating martyrs.

Cut the snake from the tail up, save the head until last.

Although doing nothing is not an option whatever you do will be criticised, frowned upon and probably treated with horror by some... the first question to ask is do you want to kill the beast or keep your seat at the table with your friends.

[LancyTony]

Sorry for taking up so much room! From Tam Khan's page: I'm a Muslim and proud to be one but I think it's time as Muslims we fix this ******** problem we have. Yes we do have a problem with our community & so called 'Muslim' brothers. Whatever is going on it's time we stop blaming others, stop being the 'victims' & blaming the west. We need to fix this epidemic of inbreds from doing these despicable crimes. Sorry I don't care if you think I'm being harsh. Islam is a beautiful religion BUT these uneducated monkeys misinterpret things & feel they are acting on Gods behalf & it's only getting worse.

 

I am fed up of going back to the UK to visit home & see these ****** protest against the government or army or Poppy's or flags. Are you having a a ******* laugh? It's England, if they want to fly a flag they bloody well should. If they want to celebrate their army and all they should it's their country. If you don't like it, leave. I'd love to see these people talk crap in Muslim countries. They would be smashed in seconds. Locked up & tortured.

 

I think it's time the British or west deport not only those who speak bad or against the country but the entire family also. You come to a country to milk the benefit system, free education & health yet complain. Try that in Pakistan or the Gulf. See what will happen. It's ******* me off seeing this ****. Monkeys like Anjem Choudhury etc. Try talk bad in the Muslim states and see.

 

Contribute to the country that looks after you and your family. Respect their culture and traditions the same way they do when they live in Muslim countries. Doesn't mean your going against your religion. It's respect & what's taught in Islam. Live by the laws of the land.

 

I was born and raised in England. Never had any issues with racism or islampbobia. My closest friends were English & non Muslims. They treated me like a brother and likewise. I was able to practice my religion without offending them and they did without offending me. But over the last decade I have noticed real changes and I don't like it.

 

I feel more Muslims need to start cleaning up our society. We are lucky to be able to have so many mosques in England, able to have free speech but don't take the ****. If you don't like what you see it's simple, LEAVE!

 

Don't use the system, benefit from

It then manipulate it and the country you live in. We need more Muslims in our society who are looked up too to speak to the community, educate them and fix this ****. I am ashamed to see what I do nowadays. It bothers me so much.

 

We need to clean our society up and start being more active in mosques and Muslim 'areas'. Educate them, flag the authorities if you see individuals act strange or become illusive, any dodgy behaviour go flag these people. The end of the day it's your country also so you need to protect is just as much.

 

I am Muslim and proud but if you have an issue with what I'm saying debate with me or raise your concerns, better yet delete me if you disagree. I'm not here too make friends or kiss ass. Muslims we need to start cleaning up our communities ASAP. We are just as much to blame for letting these idiots do these things as they are for sitting quiet. If we don't it won't stop only get worse.

 

Stop becoming militants and extremists. Pray, do good, give charity, be good to your family and elders, contribute to your community, help the place prosper. Integrate, speak the bloody language of the country, educate yourselves, if you cannot you don't deserve to be there in the first place. By community I mean the place you live.

 

I have so much to say it's hard to fit it all in a status but one thing is for sure WE Muslims need to start Looking in our own communities and really need to try help clean it up because as much as we want to blame others it's ********. We need to clean up first.

 

These Idiots are giving us all a bad name. To all those who work hard, act normal and so on. Time to fix up and seriously clean up our own people

[Davebrad]

In root cause analysis an important decision is to determine the start point. It is from that point forward in time you look at what went wrong and how it could be prevented in future.

 

So let's suppose we take the start of the analysis to be how the terrorist began to be radicalised. That means the development of the mental state, failure to detect and address it, becoming part of an Islamist network, access to explosives, the bombing etc. would be examined. It strikes me that a lot of resources and luck are needed in actions to detect and prevent by all the possible government agencies would be one conclusion of the analysis.

 

What I am going to say next comes immediately into a clash with political correctness. But maybe the correct starting point is when the terrorist's parents were allowed to come to the UK. If that had never happened then Manchester would most likely have never occurred. Prevention might also be zero cost.

 

So looking at all the refugees and economic migrants wanting to come to the UK now. These are penetrated by all sorts of current and future wrongdoers. The root cause analysis I have just briefly completed suggests we should assist with international aid in region, but not bring refugees from failing states into the country Any refugees let in must have been vetted and have a very high level of acquired assurance that they pose no or very little security risk.

 

Old Enoch was right "as I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding, like the Roman, I seem to see the River Tiber foaming with much blood"... delivered April 20th 1968.

[Guppy 4 England]

One thing I have noticed since the attacks is how it's bought the British people closer together, the problem being I don't class Muslim's in that bracket. They keep referring to them selves in every TV interview as the Muslim community , where as the Brit's be them black, white, green pink purple, Catholic, seikh, whatever, refer to themselves as Mancunian's, the only thing I have seen is Muslim's calling them selves the Muslim community.

 

Well how about you integrate and stop the segregation, be part of our community and part of what's happening stop persecuting yourselves and help sort these nut jobs out.

 

This segregation is only detrimental to your religion and how it's perceived.

[LancyTony]

My root cause analysis would include failure to divest from the arms trade and reliance on oil.

 

Yes...because throwing homosexuals off buildings is all about oil and the arms trade!

[blinkme]

no knee jerk reaction but-

 

after these terrible incidents here or abroad the security people end up saying "they were on our radar" so why did it happen,

 

if any body comes back from Syria, Iraq, Iran, etc put them in quarintine till they can be checked for radicalisation.

 

start fighting isis properly as thou we mean to destroy them.

 

as soon as any info about one of the teachers emergies isolate them.

 

the trouble is we are fighting them with our rules... isis don't fight by any rules.

 

that earth-quake bomb is a good idea, lets drop a few more!!! seriously we are a modern tech country lets bomb the s**t out of them, we've got to kill them cause corbyns way, taking with them is going to do a lot I don't think...

 

sorry my rant is over, but its content i'm NOT sorry for.

 

underfunding of the police?