On 06/03/2025 at 10:14, Rory said:

Nice post.

I have an idea of how all of this can be solved, not just for Port Vale supporters, but for football supporters everywhere! Let's move to 5 points for a win, 1 point for a draw, 2 bonus points if you score 3+ goals.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED

Like the bonus points for goals idea, very much like rugby union and the try count which has arguably created a much more entertaining spectacle.  Would be an interesting debate on how many points extra per goal tally - eg how about a bonus point for every two goals scored? 

Edited March 7, 20251 yr by Trumpingtonvale
Smellimg

3 hours ago, Rory said:

Nice post.

I have an idea of how all of this can be solved, not just for Port Vale supporters, but for football supporters everywhere! Let's move to 5 points for a win, 1 point for a draw, 2 bonus points if you score 3+ goals.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED

Even simpler solution.

You start a game at 0  0  No points.

So no goals = no points.

Why win a point in you dont attack and score a goal. Thats entertainment..... 

9 hours ago, MelbourneValiant said:

I just think we should not expect to have games in hand assumed as points in the bag.

Totally agree,I think Colchester will be really difficult and then there is Barrow at home on errrrrmmmmm a Tuesday night and we all know about that hoodoo

On 04/03/2025 at 22:34, valefan79 said:

Another desperate game of football apart from the first 20 minutes when I thought we were ok without being free flowing.  I must have been to a different game than Moore tonight if he felt we played well and did enough to win 2/3 games, the second half was truly awful and so boring with the exception of a near miss from a set play by Jerry.  I can't believe he came out with he picked a positive attacking team, it is 5 defenders, 3 defensive midfield players and 2 forwards.  We basically have 8 outfield players who will never score more than 3 or 4 in a season starting which leaves the only realistic chance of scoring down to Tolaj and Curtis.  If you are going to play this formation, you have to find room for either Chislett or Rico, a midfield 3 of Byers, Harper and Croasdale will never work.

I am so bored of watching the games under Moore and for me I would not make a change now but regardless, whether we are in league 2 or league 1, he would not be here next season for me, would be harsh for most if we go up but Sheffield Wednesday got rid after a play off win.  As someone mentioned earlier, the entertainment value is next to nothing.  If we go up, everyone will be over the moon but I just look back to that promotion season under Adams when we had so many great games, 5 at Fleetwood, 6 at home to Rotherham, 7 against Burton, 4 against Wycombe, Bristol, Plymouth, great win against Cheltenham in the snow when things looked we were dropping away, another 4 or 5 games where we scored 3.  This year other than Newport away, spells in the games against Wimbledon, Fleetwood and Chesterfield, have we been entertained and left thinking what a good game of football that was.

We have done so all season although sure we tried with 2 defensive mids at the start and 3 up front. This failed because the 2 wide men were playing so wide they were never in it.

Every bit of drive is suppose to come from the two wing backs. Midfield has been very poor for most of the season. Croasdale is a box to box player but he has tired since Christmas. Garrity, when he has had his chances has failed to score. Harper was signed, i believe, to cover for Byers / Garrity and not to to be a creative attacking player. Something Harper is not !! Chislett, Rico, Lowe and whoever else are not all round good midfield players for me. Not a good squad of midfield players at all. Certainly not a balanced squad.

2 wing backs to give us all our drive and creativity up the pitch. Thought we had found it with Headley. Great attacking player, pace and forward drive. Start of this 10 game run he was man of match a few times. Hes gone and we are back to Shorrock or Hart to fill in. Useless the pair of them. If we played both together [ yes 12 men on pitch ] dont think they would be successful. Clarke had a couple of games and did well before he disappeared again. Thought on Tuesday he was not his normal self and may need a game or two yet. Hope he isnt carrying a knock still. John is his replacement for that role, no one else can do it. Thought John was wasted Tuesday, should have played on the left and Debra kept his place for now [ Sang will do this ] when available ]

Why with such a defensive midfield set up and knowing there are no goals from them, or from the back 3 at set pieces, why are we so dependent on two full backs, playing as wing back to create all our goals. Never going to happen !!!!. Very poor balanced squad from day one for me. We need attacking wingers to be playing as wing backs to create goals and ok chance the defensive part of their game. Then again our back three may not look at solid without the 8 defensive minded players in front of them

Never was enough goals in our squad and it may cost us a play off position.

 

On 05/03/2025 at 10:44, VTID-New said:

Chiz proved last season he’s better than this level. There’s no doubting his ability. But when he has been on the pitch he hasn’t done much himself this season either. I get that he’s been playing in a system that probably doesn’t suit him or he’s not been given a consistent run of games. But he has to do more when he gets on, the same as Paton & Curtis had to & rarely achieved earlier in the season. Tinkering around so much has left so many of this squad disjointed & disinterested by the looks of it. It’s no coincidence the likes of Chiz, Paton, Curtis, Rico, Tolaj & even the keepers have struggled at times due to so much rotation. Darren just pick a settled side & play our most dangerous players 🤦‍♂️ 

I used the same argument about tolaj earlier in the season. Im a huge chizzie fan but I agree he hasn't made the best of his chances this season when he has been picked or come on as sub and if any player wants to break into the team from the bench the only way to do that is to be fired up when they do get a chance and show what they can do. That said I think dm is crazy if he ignores him if anyone can craft a chance or score a goal from nothing its chizzie. Plus our set pieces at the moment are absolutely terrible we need another set piece taker on the pitch.

10 hours ago, MelbourneValiant said:

I just think we should not expect to have games in hand assumed as points in the bag.

Absolutely, especially those played on a tuesday night.

 

5 hours ago, PV1993 said:

Given it a couple of days before posting to let it sink in.

First half was okay - not amazing but decent enough. We play some good stuff and had a few chances. Better first half than normal so at half time I was feeling positive. Second half was poor though. Can we not play a good 90?

What annoyed me however was DMs comments on RS after the game. He said that our shots were in ‘double digits’ and so the fans could see we were attacking. I would expect us to get to double digits at a minimum. It always annoyed me how we would come out of games having had 9 shots, look over at Walsall who had managed shots in the 20s. That comment for me shows just how negative a manager he is.

Two seasons ago my missus started coming with me and got really into it. Even ended up getting a season ticket despite the fact that we’re weren’t amazing. I told her we would be much better this season because we’re a bigger team in the league. Even though we are in the play off/promotion mix, she’s got bored of the crap football and has started to go and watch ice hockey instead.

My point here is that this style of football is not going to entice people to come again.

I’m so bored of this football. I’ve said all  along we will make the play offs and might even sneak 3rd, but it’s just not entertaining to watch.

I don’t buy into the ‘if rather win a boring 1-0 than an entertaining draw or even loss’. If we were losing every week fair enough but as others have pointed out a win and a loss is better than two draws.

I genuinely don’t mind us losing if we’ve shown intent and given it a right good go. Football will go on forever and we’ll go up and come back down again countless times. So I want to be entertained. I’ve got my tin hat on as I know not everyone will agree but at the end of the day I buy season tickets, cup and away tickets, shirts, food, away travel, and much more, as well as giving up my Saturdays for most of the year. I love the Vale and will support n matter what but that doesn’t mean I should have to accept boring football or non entertainment.

@PV1993

A well-considered post.

I'd like to add a few points for your consideration.

Football is a results business, and football managers get very limited security of tenure (even at the Vale), so I can well understand why Darren (and all of his coaching team, let's not forget), are choosing a pragmatic, first-don't-lose approach.
,
Darren & Co are just over a year into their reign, they inherited a very weak squad and, by all EFL2 standards, they have made an excellent start to revitalising that squad with some cracking signings, players who could certainly play successfully above L2.

We have been in contention all season for the automatic promotion spots, we are undefeated in 2025 and, with 2 months to go, we have automatic promotion in our own hands IF we are good enough to take it.

Regardless of the eventual outcome of this season, I am happy to see incremental improvement in all aspects of the club - if that continues, we WILL go up the League divisions and we will also continue to be a credit to our community.

7 hours ago, Nippy Naylor said:

You read my mind

7 hours ago, darren1810 said:

Have to disagree Paul. We certainly heard his whistle regularly. He lost the plot with their feigned injuries on numerous occasions, and the one where the guy was walking towards the dugouts and then did a U-turn and trudged towards the paddock instead was very weak refereeing. 

He loved the sound of his own whistle, often for the most petty things like the ball being 10 millimetres from where he wanted it to be.

It's week in week out. 1 penalty again all season, numerous reds ,Bromley, Curtis rescinded card. 

I get that mistakes happen they are human but the standards of officiating are plummeting. 

One of the so called elite, Oliver , even had to use VAR to send the Millwall keeper off after his assault on Mateta. That decision alone should see him stood down for a month. 

 

17 hours ago, pensioner said:

Jesus Christ !   You didn't notice him with the bloody floodlights reflecting off his bald head ?  It was like a Lighthouse at times . He needs a bobble hat for night matches . 

No problem to have a different opinion guys but IMHO we've had much worse than him reffing Vale games this season, doesn't say a lot I know.

No problem to have a different opinion guys but IMHO we've had much worse than him reffing Vale games this season, doesn't say a lot I know.

Certainly we've had worse. However, he didn't have many decisions to make and yet got the 2 major decisions wrong. That's unforgivable in my book.

1 hour ago, Alan Vit said:

@PV1993

A well-considered post.

I'd like to add a few points for your consideration.

Football is a results business, and football managers get very limited security of tenure (even at the Vale), so I can well understand why Darren (and all of his coaching team, let's not forget), are choosing a pragmatic, first-don't-lose approach.
,
Darren & Co are just over a year into their reign, they inherited a very weak squad and, by all EFL2 standards, they have made an excellent start to revitalising that squad with some cracking signings, players who could certainly play successfully above L2.

We have been in contention all season for the automatic promotion spots, we are undefeated in 2025 and, with 2 months to go, we have automatic promotion in our own hands IF we are good enough to take it.

Regardless of the eventual outcome of this season, I am happy to see incremental improvement in all aspects of the club - if that continues, we WILL go up the League divisions and we will also continue to be a credit to our community.

If we don’t get promoted DM has to go.

2x seasons on the run he would have failed. Thats not incremental gains.

I’m not calling for him to be sacked because it’s not practical but he is boring me to death and making me angry at games with his subs. It such a chore to watch us home and away.

I won’t if he’s still here next season in L2.

2 hours ago, MBE said:

If we don’t get promoted DM has to go.

2x seasons on the run he would have failed. Thats not incremental gains.

@MBE

That’s uncharacteristically unfounded.

Darren & colleagues joined after the January 2024 transfer window had closed, and inherited a desperately weak squad with no opportunity to improve it.

So they have actually had the summer 2024 and January 2025 transfer windows in which to work.

And by any rational standards have used them well to improve the squad with some excellent signings.

By your unrealistic standards, 20 out of 24 managers in each EFL division would be sacked each season for not gaining promotion.

5 minutes ago, Alan Vit said:

@MBE

That’s uncharacteristically unfounded.

Darren & colleagues joined after the January 2024 transfer window had closed, and inherited a desperately weak squad with no opportunity to improve it.

So they have actually had the summer 2024 and January 2025 transfer windows in which to work.

And by any rational standards have used them well to improve the squad with some excellent signings.

By your unrealistic standards, 20 out of 24 managers in each EFL division would be sacked each season for not gaining promotion.

 12 months ago DM was hired with the objective to keep us in L1 = FAILED

DM’s remit this season is promotion. If that is not achieved he would have FAILED irrespective of the squad. In fact I would say it’s an even bigger failing considering the number of players in this squad who probably should be playing in L1.

You can argue the merits of when he was hired and strength of squads etc. but DM was hired for an outcome which needs to be achieved.

I don’t see how that is an unrealistic expectation. 

 

1 hour ago, Alan Vit said:

@MBE

That’s uncharacteristically unfounded.

Darren & colleagues joined after the January 2024 transfer window had closed, and inherited a desperately weak squad with no opportunity to improve it.

So they have actually had the summer 2024 and January 2025 transfer windows in which to work.

And by any rational standards have used them well to improve the squad with some excellent signings.

By your unrealistic standards, 20 out of 24 managers in each EFL division would be sacked each season for not gaining promotion.

 

1 hour ago, MBE said:

 12 months ago DM was hired with the objective to keep us in L1 = FAILED

DM’s remit this season is promotion. If that is not achieved he would have FAILED irrespective of the squad. In fact I would say it’s an even bigger failing considering the number of players in this squad who probably should be playing in L1.

You can argue the merits of when he was hired and strength of squads etc. but DM was hired for an outcome which needs to be achieved.

I don’t see how that is an unrealistic expectation. 

 

What’s unrealistic in your view is -

1. 24 teams set out to win promotion each season, but only 4 succeed.

That doesn’t mean that the other 20 teams are all entirely useless or worthless, or that the managers of those teams should automatically be sacked.

2. Signing potentially better players doesn’t guarantee success, if you are unlucky enough to have many of those  players out injured for long periods, as we have.

3. Change isn’t automatically for the better - I haven’t been given the instant gratification which I demand, so let’s break everything and start again, because that’s guaranteed to be successful, isn’t it…?

This has the potential to be an excellent season.

Let’s get behind the management and the team and make it so.

17 hours ago, Sandyford_Lion said:

We have done so all season although sure we tried with 2 defensive mids at the start and 3 up front. This failed because the 2 wide men were playing so wide they were never in it.

Every bit of drive is suppose to come from the two wing backs. Midfield has been very poor for most of the season. Croasdale is a box to box player but he has tired since Christmas. Garrity, when he has had his chances has failed to score. Harper was signed, i believe, to cover for Byers / Garrity and not to to be a creative attacking player. Something Harper is not !! Chislett, Rico, Lowe and whoever else are not all round good midfield players for me. Not a good squad of midfield players at all. Certainly not a balanced squad.

2 wing backs to give us all our drive and creativity up the pitch. Thought we had found it with Headley. Great attacking player, pace and forward drive. Start of this 10 game run he was man of match a few times. Hes gone and we are back to Shorrock or Hart to fill in. Useless the pair of them. If we played both together [ yes 12 men on pitch ] dont think they would be successful. Clarke had a couple of games and did well before he disappeared again. Thought on Tuesday he was not his normal self and may need a game or two yet. Hope he isnt carrying a knock still. John is his replacement for that role, no one else can do it. Thought John was wasted Tuesday, should have played on the left and Debra kept his place for now [ Sang will do this ] when available ]

Why with such a defensive midfield set up and knowing there are no goals from them, or from the back 3 at set pieces, why are we so dependent on two full backs, playing as wing back to create all our goals. Never going to happen !!!!. Very poor balanced squad from day one for me. We need attacking wingers to be playing as wing backs to create goals and ok chance the defensive part of their game. Then again our back three may not look at solid without the 8 defensive minded players in front of them

Never was enough goals in our squad and it may cost us a play off position.

 

Curtis is a natural wide player. With Stockley out injured should he play wide with Tolaj and Hackford/ Rico  upfront. That's 3 attacking players rather than relying on attacking wingbacks, who are fullbacks in old money .Agreed Headley is a goal scoring wingback and is a big miss.