Cheltenham T (H) match thread 28th Oct

[sinnott2spinnit]

Whatever the opinion is on Loft and Uche’s capabilities or shortcomings, I very much doubt that Tom Pope in his pomp would score many goals in this system of play. I’ve been attending the Vale for over 60 years and I have to say that yesterday was one of the worst performances I’ve ever witnessed. That takes some doing.

[valiant_593]

3 hours ago, Rampant Zebra said:

Is that the Ellis Harrison who has scored 1 league 2 goal since August? Prolific...

How many games has he played? 

What matters is what he did for us last season, he scored a good amount of goals at 1 in 3 and we let him go for a bloke with what a 1 in 10 record for Bristol at the same level. He led the line very well often playing 90 mins as the lone striker, chasing everything.

Ellis isn’t and never will be prolific but he’s a good proven league 1 striker who will get double figures. Loft is not. 

[Warren]

1 hour ago, Gooders said:

He wasn't fit very often last season.

Calvert Lewin looked fit today and his contribution was decisive. The thing about him, aside from being a top player, compared with our two potential target men is mobility. We have signed two big dudes, but in their current state I can't see how they get around the pitch sufficiently. 

[Warren]

36 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

How many games has he played? 

What matters is what he did for us last season, he scored a good amount of goals at 1 in 3 and we let him go for a bloke with what a 1 in 10 record for Bristol at the same level. He led the line very well often playing 90 mins as the lone striker, chasing everything.

Ellis isn’t and never will be prolific but he’s a good proven league 1 striker who will get double figures. Loft is not. 

Ellis Harrison was a good target man and also a very good defender in the air. He worked hard as well. But his finishing was atrocious. To be fair so was Taylor who we took on loan. I liked him, but I saw his first game for MK Dons and he missed an open goal from 2 yards out!

He has been playing and not scoring for MK Dons. However, yesterday he was not in their match day squad. 

[Trumpingtonvale]

39 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

How many games has he played? 

What matters is what he did for us last season, he scored a good amount of goals at 1 in 3 and we let him go for a bloke with what a 1 in 10 record for Bristol at the same level. He led the line very well often playing 90 mins as the lone striker, chasing everything.

Ellis isn’t and never will be prolific but he’s a good proven league 1 striker who will get double figures. Loft is not. 

Had his best season with us for a while (11 in 33) having scored 15 in 84 L1 games for the 4 years before coming to us.   Only reached double figures once previously, that in his last season with the Gas.  Think it was DC that said club’s with our kind of budget had to gamble on signing strikers hoping they’d have one or two of their better seasons while playing for us.  There are now very few players from whom you can guarantee 10+ goals every season or at least ones we can afford.  Loft and Uche are our latest gamble/risk and there’s still 30 games to see if it pays off.

[Warren]

1 minute ago, Trumpingtonvale said:

Had his best season with us for a while (11 in 33) having scored 15 in 84 L1 games for the 4 years before coming to us.   Only reached double figures once previously, that in his last season with the Gas.  Think it was DC that said club’s with our kind of budget had to gamble on signing strikers hoping they’d have one or two of their better seasons while playing for us.  There are now very few players from whom you can guarantee 10+ goals every season or at least ones we can afford.  Loft and Uche are our latest gamble/risk and there’s still 30 games to see if it pays off.

I think one issue I have is that this is a decisive week. OK, we surely can play better in L1 and when the two get up to speed they could be useful. But we are in two cup games with no second chances this week. The game at Mansfield has a lot of money riding on it. We simply can't play like we did on Saturday. I think if we do, we will lose at 19 unbeaten Mansfield and we will get battered at Vale Park by Burton. So we need a Monday morning solution from Crosby! 

[Mellor!]

4 hours ago, Osh said:

No. I'm just not in the place you're in. Yet.

I'd give him until Jan 1st to return to the form we had only a short while ago. 

I think it was @BrianJohnson who said at the time: we're not as good as some seem to think, and we're not as bad as others think. 

I'd give him more time. 

I'd give him until Saturday myself Osh. After yesterday, if we're out of both cups on Saturday, then the only thing we'll have to look forward to is a relegation battle. I'm not sure going into that with a rookie (and in my opinion naive) manager is the best course.

[Rampant Zebra]

7 minutes ago, Mellor! said:

I'd give him until Saturday myself Osh. After yesterday, if we're out of both cups on Saturday, then the only thing we'll have to look forward to is a relegation battle. I'm not sure going into that with a rookie (and in my opinion naive) manager is the best course.

Do you really think that someone who has managed Northern Ireland U21s in Europe is naive or inexperienced?

[philpvfc]

57 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

How many games has he played? 

What matters is what he did for us last season, he scored a good amount of goals at 1 in 3 and we let him go for a bloke with what a 1 in 10 record for Bristol at the same level. He led the line very well often playing 90 mins as the lone striker, chasing everything.

Ellis isn’t and never will be prolific but he’s a good proven league 1 striker who will get double figures. Loft is not. 

Letting Ellis go was the right thing to do, he didn’t want to be here and he wasn’t that good tbh, just best of a really poor strike force. What is criminal is having 2 attempts to sign a striker better than him (bench mark not that high) and to fail on both occasions quite miserably, which at this point of time is looking most likely.

[philpvfc]

11 minutes ago, Mellor! said:

I'd give him until Saturday myself Osh. After yesterday, if we're out of both cups on Saturday, then the only thing we'll have to look forward to is a relegation battle. I'm not sure going into that with a rookie (and in my opinion naive) manager is the best course.

Do you think any manager out there, certainly one who’d come to the Vale will get much better out of the starting 11 that started against Cheltenham?.

[Mellor!]

6 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

Do you really think that someone who has managed Northern Ireland U21s in Europe is naive or inexperienced?

I think the way he won't change the system, still playing a wing back system with no wing backs, playing Smith at LCB, the 70% possession between the centre backs and Ripley that hasn't worked for weeks is naive. Yes. 

[Mellor!]

4 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Do you think any manager out there, certainly one who’d come to the Vale will get much better out of the starting 11 that started against Cheltenham?.

Ah, sorry. Forgot we'd won the 7 games before with free flowing football, scoring 3 goals a game. Who signed the players? If they aren't good enough to play for us, why were they signed?

[philpvfc]

Just now, Mellor! said:

Ah, sorry. Forgot we'd won the 7 games before with free flowing football, scoring 3 goals a game. Who signed the players? If they aren't good enough to play for us, why were they signed?

Take out a few key players we are stuffed. What about the 7 games before this bad run? As for why they were signed……that’s our recruitment team, do you want Crosby sacked or the recruitment team, or both because the way I see it, our recruitment led to the downfall of Clarke and it’s sinking Crosby.

[philpvfc]

5 minutes ago, Mellor! said:

I think the way he won't change the system, still playing a wing back system with no wing backs, playing Smith at LCB, the 70% possession between the centre backs and Ripley that hasn't worked for weeks is naive. Yes. 

Agree, the wing back is not working as we don’t have wing backs but the problem is at the moment we don’t have 4 fit defenders to change to a back 4, again…..bad recruitment.

[Granville]

1 hour ago, Mellor! said:

I think the way he won't change the system, still playing a wing back system with no wing backs, playing Smith at LCB, the 70% possession between the centre backs and Ripley that hasn't worked for weeks is naive. Yes. 

A few weeks ago we were lauding Ripley's capacity to play put from the back, but he had Smith on the right, Jones in the middle and Iacovitti on the left. Smith is playing left centre back now because Iacovitti and Jones are both injured, Balmer arguably hasn't settled and is also now injured and Cass is now the only centre half we have who looks comfortable with the ball to his feet which is why Ripley is going long. Its why Ojo is dropping deeper to get the ball.

I don't think Crosby is picking Smith there out of choice, he's doing it because his two first choice left sided centre backs are injured and he is capable, rather than outstanding.