Apart from the defence being shocking for some reason the Vale never seem to grasp that a good manager and a good goalscorer cost good money. 

13 minutes ago, valefan16 said:

Newport are meh. Grimsby battered them today but they got a 1-0 Orient are meh. Stevenage is winnable.

None of those have the quality Tranmere do.

And none of them (thankfully) have James Vaughan!

Artell - really bad pitch but that’s just an observation not an excuse

Then goes onto mention the poor pitch 4 times !

2 minutes ago, Lornelounger said:

It seems to me that we just have to accept that this season we are a poor side in transition that is going to finish low down in this division.  I don't think we will go down, but that is probably more due to other teams below us being worse.  I saddens me to see fans on here week after week slagging off and scapegoating players who aren't up to it, though I understand their frustration.  Players are probably doing their best, but their best isn't good enough to push us to where the fans expect us to be.  So we have a choice - we can either continue to get off on continuing to slag our team off and state the obvious, venting our anger and making ourselves feel better about our superb analytical skills from a distance compared to a caretaker manager, or we can accept that this season we have gone backwards (perhaps we overperformed last season?). It is clear that some older players need moving on, as do some of our second string players, particularly in defence.  But we are trying to build a team for the future on younger players who are more promising - Rodney, Taylor, Conlon, Gibbons, Guthrie, Swan etc. That is surely the sensible option? 

It seems to make sense to me - the younger players compensate for lack of experience with energy around the pitch, and are learning all the time, probably more from matches than the coaching they are receiving.  Recruiting from Championship sides, as we did in part of the window, makes sense.   We do tend to lionise players when we win and trash them a week later when we lost though. Last week Guthrie "put in a shift and lead the line well".  This week "he is <ovf censored> and not a goal scorer", and the only reason he looked good last week was because it was Southend.  How is that supposed to help his confidence?  He's a young lad learning the game, and Popey, I am sure, will be giving him lots of advice on how to make the most of having the ball lumped up to you by a defence struggling to clear their lines.  Give him a break - he is one of our team trying to help us get up the league.

Perhaps we expected too much this season after last?  But our older experienced players (Brown, Legge, Joyce and Pope) have struggled to maintain their form or been injured, and those around them haven't been able to fill their shoes.  Should we be surprised? I know there is the "how come other teams manage to do it better" argument, and we need to keep looking at why that is.  A new manager and better coaching might be an answer.  Tranmere today had better players than us in key positions.  They just signed Nugent, 35 years old, bags of experience, and had Spearing and Vaughan - we are taking a different route.  I just don't see any point in running down our team and stating the obvious every week (ie we are not very good, particularly in defence). Look at the bigger picture, longer term - once this wretched season is over, we should be in a better position, hopefully.  I still think we suffer too many injuries to key players - maybe we need to look at that too? I just can't find it in myself to run down my own team when they are clearly having a Jarvis this season.

 

I accept most of your points, but I’d like to point out Guthrie is 27 so he’s hardly learning the game. Should be in his prime. He was poor today but every other game so far I think he’s done alright, certainly offered more than Robinson and Cullen have

I think today just shows how far off we actually are.

3 minutes ago, llcoolj said:

Apart from the defence being shocking for some reason the Vale never seem to grasp that a good manager and a good goalscorer cost good money. 

I think they grasp it. However prefer to keep trying these cheap chances time and time again that hopefully one of them works 

12 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

Desperate for a centre back. Sign one. Leave him sat on the bench for 90 mins whilst all our proven <ovf censored> players get yet another chance. Looks a classic vale signing. He has to start next week 

I wouldn’t have started an inexperienced 19 year old centre half against the best striker in the division either. 

5 minutes ago, Lornelounger said:

It seems to me that we just have to accept that this season we are a poor side in transition that is going to finish low down in this division.  I don't think we will go down, but that is probably more due to other teams below us being worse.  I saddens me to see fans on here week after week slagging off and scapegoating players who aren't up to it, though I understand their frustration.  Players are probably doing their best, but their best isn't good enough to push us to where the fans expect us to be.  So we have a choice - we can either continue to get off on continuing to slag our team off and state the obvious, venting our anger and making ourselves feel better about our superb analytical skills from a distance compared to a caretaker manager, or we can accept that this season we have gone backwards (perhaps we overperformed last season?). It is clear that some older players need moving on, as do some of our second string players, particularly in defence.  But we are trying to build a team for the future on younger players who are more promising - Rodney, Taylor, Conlon, Gibbons, Guthrie, Swan etc. That is surely the sensible option? 

It seems to make sense to me - the younger players compensate for lack of experience with energy around the pitch, and are learning all the time, probably more from matches than the coaching they are receiving.  Recruiting from Championship sides, as we did in part of the window, makes sense.   We do tend to lionise players when we win and trash them a week later when we lost though. Last week Guthrie "put in a shift and lead the line well".  This week "he is <ovf censored> and not a goal scorer", and the only reason he looked good last week was because it was Southend.  How is that supposed to help his confidence?  He's a young lad learning the game, and Popey, I am sure, will be giving him lots of advice on how to make the most of having the ball lumped up to you by a defence struggling to clear their lines.  Give him a break - he is one of our team trying to help us get up the league.

Perhaps we expected too much this season after last?  But our older experienced players (Brown, Legge, Joyce and Pope) have struggled to maintain their form or been injured, and those around them haven't been able to fill their shoes.  Should we be surprised? I know there is the "how come other teams manage to do it better" argument, and we need to keep looking at why that is.  A new manager and better coaching might be an answer.  Tranmere today had better players than us in key positions.  They just signed Nugent, 35 years old, bags of experience, and had Spearing and Vaughan - we are taking a different route.  I just don't see any point in running down our team and stating the obvious every week (ie we are not very good, particularly in defence). Look at the bigger picture, longer term - once this wretched season is over, we should be in a better position, hopefully.  I still think we suffer too many injuries to key players - maybe we need to look at that too? I just can't find it in myself to run down my own team when they are clearly having a Jarvis this season.

 

All quite true, Mr L. But where does the accountability for this lie? And how is it going to improve? Many of the posters you say are having a needless pop at the players saw the wheels coming off in November, yet here we are in February still searching for the Holy Grail.

Something has to change and change soon or next season the club will not have the revenue to do very much at all.

We need leadership and hope. 

 I accept most of your points, but I’d like to point out Guthrie is 27 so he’s hardly learning the game. Should be in his prime. He was poor today but every other game so far I think he’s done alright, certainly offered more than Robinson and Cullen have.

Agreed he is no spring chicken, but I see him as a target man to replace Pope while he is injured. We need someone to hold up the ball and take the pressure off our defence. He can be coached to do that at the vale I would hope, even if he can't be pinging them in to the net from all angles.

 

2 hours ago, CambridgeDon said:

All that came from Mills needlessly giving the ball away. Where did Askey get these useless players from? Two chances and they're two up. With this defence, we are going to leak goals like a colander.

Poor defending again from Crookes in the middle. Mills awful, Crookes as bad

2 hours ago, Powerline said:

Why are people complaining about Sinclair. Pugh is the manager. And I’m not having a go at Pugh. He shouldn’t be manager, whenever we’ve played a team that’s not non league standard we’ve played <ovf censored>. Get someone in please.

We lost. Surely Pugh was at home ? Nothing to do with it. We never lose when he is on touchline !!

19 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

Desperate for a centre back. Sign one. Leave him sat on the bench for 90 mins whilst all our proven <ovf censored> players get yet another chance. Looks a classic vale signing. He has to start next week 

Don't think I would have started Mussa today against possibly the best striker in the division. What is he? 19? And with 7 senior games to his name. It would have been a big, big ask and possibly damaged his confidence. 

Perhaps next week we'll see him but not today. 

2 hours ago, TRFC1992 said:

Your attacking is really good, constantly look dangerous.

Your defence is quite bad, looks like we'll score each time we attack.

Centre backs need a rollicking for you lot.

You can see it.

We can see it.

Our management team cannot

2 hours ago, TRFC1992 said:

Your attacking is really good, constantly look dangerous.

Your defence is quite bad, looks like we'll score each time we attack.

Centre backs need a rollicking for you lot.

Should have added i would sooner leave out Smith and Crookes and play just Clark on his own

 

2 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

I think they grasp it. However prefer to keep trying these cheap chances time and time again that hopefully one of them works 

"Prefer" or having to cut our cloth with no income coming in?  Anyway, at the very outset the new owners stated quite clearly that the plan was to run the club sustainably, but people seem very keen to bypass that fact.  Do fans honestly think we can throw cash around like it's anormal season?