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2 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Some parallels here with Tom Brady the ex New England Patriots Quarter Back. TB chose to leave the Patriots, depending on who you believe, at the end of the 2020 season after 20 successful seasons and joined the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Many Patriots fans and Boston sports  commentators were saying let him go, he's too old and past his best. To be fair in his last season at the Patriots TB did seem less athletic and less mobile although he was always more of a passing QB than one who ran with the ball.

Those very same fans/sports commentators who were saying let him go are now singing a totally different tune after witnessing TB take The Buccs to the play-offs in the 2021 season with excellent playing statistics. The first time the Buccs have made the play-offs in yonks whilst The Patriots were awful all season and failed to make the play-offs.

Paul, Tom Brady situation is totally different. He went to Tampa for money and to achieve more success. He took a bigger pay day rather than sacrificing his own contract, which he had done in New England previously to enable them to invest in weapons around him. Despite his once in a generation achievements he has rarely been the highest paid QB.  In his last year at New England he had no weapons at all with an arm not quite as strong and looked very very average. He was in decline and still is in Tampa but he has the players around him to make plays, uses his experience to read the defence to change the offensive play and makes good decisions. 

Tampa had the cap space to invest in him weapons around him - Patriots didn't.

 

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I’d say give him a one year deal too. 

This quote from the Sentinel says it all about Tom Pope:

I thought the guy nutted him from behind deliberately and thought it was a sending off straight away. As someone said above when flat out and kicking the ground in pain I thought it was something

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Got to be worth another year hasn't he?

Assuming we're going to ship out Robinson and Mckirdy and probably negotiate a couple of others out then we should be able to get a half decent striker plus take a chance on another in the Rodney mould?

TP still offers us value in that situation.  

Defo a keep for me.

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1 hour ago, philmpv said:
1 hour ago, LancyTony said:
Not really. What it does is level the playing field and stop big-spending teams blowing their budgets...and then some...chasing a dream and getting an unfair advantage over those that are more prudent. Also, it means more opportunities for younger players to come in and add sufficient numbers to the squad.

That's the theory isn't it? However, with the increasing demand for instant success nowadays not many managers will have the guts nor the backing to actually play promising youngsters.

No, not really. If you're only prepared to get experienced players in, in an attempt to get promotion / avoid relegation, you will have a small squad, probably too fragile to cope with injuries and suspensions over a full season.

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51 minutes ago, MBE said:

Paul, Tom Brady situation is totally different. He went to Tampa for money and to achieve more success. He took a bigger pay day rather than sacrificing his own contract, which he had done in New England previously to enable them to invest in weapons around him. Despite his once in a generation achievements he has rarely been the highest paid QB.  In his last year at New England he had no weapons at all with an arm not quite as strong and looked very very average. He was in decline and still is in Tampa but he has the players around him to make plays, uses his experience to read the defence to change the offensive play and makes good decisions. 

Tampa had the cap space to invest in him weapons around him - Patriots didn't.

MBE, Tom Brady and his wife are worth a reputed $600million so money was hardly a factor in him leaving The Patriots, perhaps NE winters were!!!  TB was not the highest paid QB in the NFL but being successful, likely the most successful,  with his looks and Soo Cal personality he probably made far more money from endorsements etc.

In an American Football Team the QB is by far the key player and Tom Brady despite not being the player he was is still good enough to reverse the playing fortunes of the  Tampa Bay Buccs, getting them to the play-offs for the first time in ca 13 years. In the 2019 season with Gronkowski gone Brady still won the AFC East title with the Patriots.

So back to Tom Pope, IMHO he is still good enough to do a job for Vale just like Tom Brady is for the Buccs and there is no question that Patriots fans are beyond pi$$ed that Brady left or was allowed to leave. I'd swap living 15 miles from Gillette Stadium for Tampa Bay in a heart beat right now.

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9 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

MBE, Tom Brady and his wife are worth a reputed $600million so money was hardly a factor in him leaving The Patriots, perhaps NE winters were!!!  TB was not the highest paid QB in the NFL but being successful, likely the most successful,  with his looks and Soo Cal personality he probably made far more money from endorsements etc.

In an American Football Team the QB is by far the key player and Tom Brady despite not being the player he was is still good enough to reverse the playing fortunes of the  Tampa Bay Buccs, getting them to the play-offs for the first time in ca 13 years. In the 2019 season with Gronkowski gone Brady still won the AFC East title with the Patriots.

So back to Tom Pope, IMHO he is still good enough to do a job for Vale just like Tom Brady is for the Buccs and there is no question that Patriots fans are beyond pi$$ed that Brady left or was allowed to leave. I'd swap living 15 miles from Gillette Stadium for Tampa Bay in a heart beat right now.

Don't get me wrong I don't feel sorry for him! He got a boat load of cash in his contract but also sacrificed another boat load of cash to allow NE to invest around him .That what's make him stand out from all the QB's who get a huge contract but the organisations then struggle to pay big contracts keep other star players or good free agents. I don' think Pats fans are that unhappy, they didn't really have a choice due to cap space.

Pope is still good enough as a target man at this level but we would need to build our team to play around him. At his age I don't think that is a wise investment given the higher risk to injury at his age. I feel its time to move on for both player and club. 

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13 hours ago, philmpv said:
13 hours ago, LancyTony said:
Not really. What it does is level the playing field and stop big-spending teams blowing their budgets...and then some...chasing a dream and getting an unfair advantage over those that are more prudent. Also, it means more opportunities for younger players to come in and add sufficient numbers to the squad.

That's the theory isn't it? However, with the increasing demand for instant success nowadays not many managers will have the guts nor the backing to actually play promising youngsters.

Also how do those promising youngsters at league 2 level get games? The top clubs have a “junior” Premier League and Pizza cup games to bleed in their young players. 
 

What do Vale have? Very little from what I can see. 

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On 20/01/2021 at 10:07, TJHValiant said:

Also how do those promising youngsters at league 2 level get games? The top clubs have a “junior” Premier League and Pizza cup games to bleed in their young players. 
 

What do Vale have? Very little from what I can see. 

The same way that promising youngsters have always done! By showing well in training; by sitting on the bench waiting for a chance as sub; or by being started in "dead rubber" games. As they grow older they get more game time - if they're good enough. And we're not talking about dozens of players - just the best 3 or 4 to bolster squad numbers, given the constraints of the salary cap.

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40 minutes ago, LancyTony said:

The same way that promising youngsters have always done! By showing well in training; by sitting on the bench waiting for a chance as sub; or by being started in "dead rubber" games. As they grow older they get more game time - if they're good enough. And we're not talking about dozens of players - just the best 3 or 4 to bolster squad numbers, given the constraints of the salary cap.

And they have to grab their chance straight away like smith and gibbons have done over the last few seasons. 

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3 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

And they have to grab their chance straight away like smith and gibbons have done over the last few seasons.  to be grasping the chances that come their way. it's the difference between a career as a substitute

Yes, indeed - but those youngsters who get drafted into first team squads ought to be grasping the chances that come their way/ It's the difference between getting just the odd few minutes of playing, or forcing their way into contention, then holding down the place they've won! As you say - pretty much like Gibbons and Smith. Hurst looks like he's taking his chance, too.

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On 20/01/2021 at 10:07, TJHValiant said:

Also how do those promising youngsters at league 2 level get games? The top clubs have a “junior” Premier League and Pizza cup games to bleed in their young players. 
 

What do Vale have? Very little from what I can see. 

I don’t see much hope for youngsters at lower league clubs. They’re either snapped up by big teams at a very young age or released. The youngsters at the big clubs, very few go into to play for the clubs and most get released and end playing in non league football. There are too many youngsters in academy’s than the game requires. I’m surprised that when we play in that useless midweek competition against big teams youngsters, that we don’t enquire about loaning one or two or even buying them when they’re released.

Edited by Playa Amodores
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36 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

I don’t see much hope for youngsters at lower league clubs. They’re either snapped up by big teams at a very young age or released. The youngsters at the big clubs, very few go into to play for the clubs and most get released and end playing in non league football. There are too many youngsters in academy’s than the game requires. I’m surprised that when we play in that useless midweek competition against big teams youngsters, that we don’t enquire about loaning one or two or even buying them when they’re released.

The new league rules  limits over 21 players to a maximum of 22 players.  Next season that drops to just 20 players over 21. This means clubs will have to start blooding younger players. It also helps reduce the wage bill of L2 clubs so that they can keep inside the wage cap.

 

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4 minutes ago, mbycars said:

The new league rules  limits over 21 players to a maximum of 22 players.  Next season that drops to just 20 players over 21. This means clubs will have to start blooding younger players. It also helps reduce the wage bill of L2 clubs so that they can keep inside the wage cap.

 

40 odd fewer footballer jobs then.

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1 hour ago, mbycars said:

The new league rules  limits over 21 players to a maximum of 22 players.  Next season that drops to just 20 players over 21. This means clubs will have to start blooding younger players. It also helps reduce the wage bill of L2 clubs so that they can keep inside the wage cap.

 

Exactly! Finding a few younger players, each year, will be crucial to the lower 2 Leagues clubs. If they don't find them they will end up having to fill spaces with journeymen and last-chancers. So...as has been pointed out several times on this...recruitment, and identifying promising younger players will be more essential than ever before. 

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2 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

40 odd fewer footballer jobs then.

Sad...but an acceptable reduction if it means clubs handle their finances better, so we don't see the extremes we have seen over the last couple of decades?

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TP player coach to bring on the young strikers and impact sub on a Saturday. Best striker at the club. Him and DR could be awesome as a partnership up front. Frustrating that we've hardly seen that this season. 

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2 hours ago, mbycars said:

The new league rules  limits over 21 players to a maximum of 22 players.  Next season that drops to just 20 players over 21. This means clubs will have to start blooding younger players. It also helps reduce the wage bill of L2 clubs so that they can keep inside the wage cap.

 

Yes, I understand that but I don’t think it will happen. We have Gibboand Smith. How many have fallen by the wayside, as I’ve said very good young players get taken by big clubs. If you’re a parent and you son is at a lower level and a big club come in then it’s a no brainer your son is moving. They’ll get better coaching but again the question is will they make it as a pro.? It’s okay saying bring them through because of wage capping and squad limit being reduced to 20 for over 21, but there is still a standard and if they’re not good enough then they won’t be playing. Academies do not work. 

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