Other clubs releasing players...

[TheSage]

I've always maintained that height and strength are very important, particularly at our level when the ball is in the air a lot.

Adams knew that and we had a number of tall, physical players then: Pope, Hughes, Williamson wasn't small, Hugill, McCombe, Purse, MacDonald, etc. You don't want to be bullied and lose out on too many 50:50s and aerial challenges but we've done quite well this season. But outside Pope and the two centre backs we are not a big team. A fit Oyeleke would indeed strengthen our ability to compete physically in midfield.

Thinking about Cullen, how many teams in league two do not operate without a big target man? Can't be many, if any. Not just for their heading ability but because they can physically compete and battle with centre halves and leave space for others to utilise.

You make a good point.

[Warren]

I met an old colleague in a Nissan Garage a few weeks ago. Her son made a career at Swindon and Rotherham and then much more money by working as a coach abroad. But this time of year for professional footballers is very tough. That is simply the nature of it in competitive sport. I think the average career length of a professional footballer is 8 years. In my opinion there are few clubs in League 1 and 2 that are profitable businesses. They are all just about breaking even, dependent on their owners and / or have a strong social enterprise / mutual background to keep going. They will do what they have to do in releasing players as they have in the past done what needed to be done. Soulless as that is. 

[JRC]

Frank Nouble talking about being out of contract. One player you would expect to get a club somewhere,  partly because he can play on both wings, no 9 and as a 10 or in midfield. Smaller squads will need more versatile plyers.

 

[Joe B]

49 minutes ago, JRC said:

Frank Nouble talking about being out of contract. One player you would expect to get a club somewhere,  partly because he can play on both wings, no 9 and as a 10 or in midfield. Smaller squads will need more versatile plyers.

 

I think he'd be ideal simply because he offers the exact skillset we lack up front; movement, physicality, and versatility. Think he'd frustrate a few fans with inconsistency and not being a 'blood and thunder' player, but he's good for 8-10 goals and complements Pope and Cullen well, and could also be back-up for Worrall and Amoo (should we retain Amoo).

 

[TheSage]

From memory I think we were after him when he left Newport but Colchester offered him more money.

He is a handful at this level but players like him are in demand and would want a guaranteed place in the team.

[JRC]

29 minutes ago, Joe B said:

I think he'd be ideal simply because he offers the exact skillset we lack up front; movement, physicality, and versatility. Think he'd frustrate a few fans with inconsistency and not being a 'blood and thunder' player, but he's good for 8-10 goals and complements Pope and Cullen well, and could also be back-up for Worrall and Amoo (should we retain Amoo).

 

Should we retain Amoo? Think he is a tight call. He's not the worst player but he's quite a way down my list of favourite wingers we've had. Askey has offered contracts to many players already but Amoo's name hasn't come up in this context. His greatest asset is his pace and either we aren't getting the ball into positions often enough to use it or he doesn't turn the gas on often enough for me. I think Askey remains a little undecided on this one, as am I to be fair. He'll need to make a decision on all the out of contract players in the next couple of weeks.

[robf]

1 hour ago, JRC said:

Should we retain Amoo? Think he is a tight call. He's not the worst player but he's quite a way down my list of favourite wingers we've had. Askey has offered contracts to many players already but Amoo's name hasn't come up in this context. His greatest asset is his pace and either we aren't getting the ball into positions often enough to use it or he doesn't turn the gas on often enough for me. I think Askey remains a little undecided on this one, as am I to be fair. He'll need to make a decision on all the out of contract players in the next couple of weeks.

I would keep him. I think he's sometimes underated and I think he's done enough to earn a new deal. I personally think continuity and consistency is key going forward so I think wholesale changes aren't needed. I would see a few fringe players leave (Kennedy, Evans etc) and I expect Smith will probably go but I'd try to keep the rest - even the inconsistent ones like Monty and Amoo.

If we do that then two  replacements at the back (Clark, Smith) and two upfront - (Bennett and possibly Archer if he is released) would be pretty much all we need.

And out of those four if Ryan Campbell-Gordon develops he could potentially be a homegrown left-back replacement for Clark / understudy for Montano anyhow. If Taylor also goes back to Forest then I would hope a fit Oyeleke would be a natural replacement hoping he keeps fit.

I personally think that given the gamble each new signing is, regardless of their reputation elsewhere, it's sometimes "better the devil you know" and in that case I'd offer Amoo a new contract.

[JRC]

1 hour ago, robf said:

I would keep him. I think he's sometimes underated and I think he's done enough to earn a new deal. I personally think continuity and consistency is key going forward so I think wholesale changes aren't needed. I would see a few fringe players leave (Kennedy, Evans etc) and I expect Smith will probably go but I'd try to keep the rest - even the inconsistent ones like Monty and Amoo.

If we do that then two  replacements at the back (Clark, Smith) and two upfront - (Bennett and possibly Archer if he is released) would be pretty much all we need.

And out of those four if Ryan Campbell-Gordon develops he could potentially be a homegrown left-back replacement for Clark / understudy for Montano anyhow. If Taylor also goes back to Forest then I would hope a fit Oyeleke would be a natural replacement hoping he keeps fit.

I personally think that given the gamble each new signing is, regardless of their reputation elsewhere, it's sometimes "better the devil you know" and in that case I'd offer Amoo a new contract.

I'm pretty sure Montano would get a contract offer in normal times. He's pretty consistent as a fullback, more so than as a winger. He always puts a decent shift in defensively when he's playing on the wing.

There is an issue with not getting enough goals from the wide players in a front three. Amoo and Worral have 5 each and I think to kick on one of the wide players needs to be good for double figures. I quite like Worral in a midfield 3, so that may be one way to get some additional goals into the side. The problem is Conlon, Oyeleke, Burgess and Joyce means midfield is already quite well stocked with options. If Oyeleke is fit he might be capable of double figures and Burgess might be more of a goal threat with a season under his belt.

In the ideal world you'd keep Amoo and add someone to the squad with a few more goals. Finances may dictate that adding goals may only be possible with Amoo off the wage bill.

[robf]

3 minutes ago, JRC said:

There is an issue with not getting enough goals from the wide players in a front three. Amoo and Worral have 5 each and I think to kick on one of the wide players needs to be good for double figures. 

Fair enough but this is Amoo's first season. I recall how much Joyce and Legge both kicked on after taking a season to bed in. Who says Amoo wouldn't do that in his second season and score more? That would then solve the issue. For me, he's got pace, can score and is relatively injury free - those are all good assets and I think it would be a lot to replace him with someone better. If Askey can find a gem, fair enough, but I personally would be happy with a settled Amoo upfront next season.

[TheSage]

An interesting debate, gentlemen.

I think I too would tend to keep the vast bulk of the squad. Monty and Amoo are both above average players at this level and I have a soft spot for Monty who often galvanises the crowd with his second half surges down the wing.

But, yes, we do need to score goals and that really means, the wide players contributing more, as Myrie-Williams did.

The same from midfield, especially if Taylor goes back.

And then, of course, we have a few other issues that need addressing because two of our stalwarts and best pros, Pope and Legge, are getting on and it's highly likely we won't get much more than another 12-18 months out of them. Could be more if used wisely but it depends on their fitness. Some lose it rapidly after 34-35. One or two are able to continue a bit longer.

Replacing Pope will be the big, really big, topic at the back of the manager's mind. I'm not saying immediately but we need some forward planning for this sad eventuality. Getting in someone who can replicate what he's done for us will be very very difficult. Impossible in fact.

I was impressed with Brisley. He surprised me a lot but did extremely well when he got up to speed. I wouldn't worry about giving him a starting place if the other two are struggling/gone.

I don't think there's a lot to improve in our ideal first XI. A few more goals and a bit more class from midfield but we've had a really encouraging last 12 months.

Oh, I'd try and get Clark back here.

[robf]

@TheSage Yes, I think a long-term replacement for Pope has got to be factored in. I guess if it's one upfront you ideally need a powerful, pacy forward - someone perhaps not so dominant in the air as Pope but who can stlil shield the ball and certainly with more pace than Popey.

I wondered if Archer was the one to fit the bill as he seemed to have both strength on the ball and pace to burn but he's obviously been held back by injuries and so none of us have really seen much of him. I guess if he is retained or not will tell us a lot about how Askey regards him. Having said that, I think Tom Pope still has some years in him - perhaps not as automatic first choice but certainly as a squad player.

I think Leon is a fanstastic bloke both on and off the pitch but I guess central defenders are easier and cheaper to get than strikers so although he'd also be a miss perhaps not so much as Pope would be. 

[JRC]

Pope has only made 15 league starts this season and I suspect it may well be a similar number next season. I'm sure Askey had someone in mind prior to the shutdown. 

[toyahw]

Finances permitting I'd keep Amoo, Smith, Cullen, Brisley, Monty. We've built a decent side. Not time to chuck it away and go back to scratch. But finances might dictate otherwise of course. I like our current team. Decent bunch of blokes, who have outperformed, and given us some great performances. Some duff ones too. But you can't have everything. I like this group of lads.

[Joe B]

Its a massive cliche but if Oyeleke can give us 30+ games next season, and be played purely as a creative force, it would be like a 'new signing'.

 

[Paul6754]

I'd like Vale to keep most of the current squad, 2-4 new signings, consistency is the key to success.

Would be over the moon if we could keep Jake Taylor and/or Mich Clark for another season......or better.....