General Erection - 12th December 2019

[Bycarsbill]

3 hours ago, geosname said:

You lost me at Who benefits most from Brexit..... no body initially.... long term is anyone's guess..... UK if it can do the deals.... EU if it wants to diverge and doesn't have to drag the UK with it.

A well- balanced and good assessment!

[mr.hobblesworth]

33 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

We're again going to have to agree to disagree Mr. H. However, I'm afraid it's you running away from the truth not me.  Here's your challenge: check the parliamentary voting records and you'll find there was (factually) only a handful of Conservative MPs who ever voted against the deals on offer--in fact if you care to do the research, you'll see that it was only 7 of them first time around--so how you can claim "Many in the Conservative party were working to thwart Brexit" is beyond me and so obviously factually incorrect!

118 tories voted against the first Brexit deal. Check the link I posted about an hour ago. 

[Fosse69]

1 hour ago, geosname said:

Define poverty.

Poverty in the UK is defined as 60% of median income, obviously that would be different in London and say North Staffs. Has to be related to location,  Someone quoted that UK is in the top 1% for earnings in the World.

[ginge]

https://www.mailplus.co.uk/tv/the-michael-crick-report/653/caught-in-the-act-how-hot-mic-exposed-would-be-mps-fake-news-ruse 

More dishonesty from the Tories

[mr.hobblesworth]

Heh, I saw that. What a repugnant, morally bankrupt bunch of liars the tories are. Johnson leading from the top.

[mr.hobblesworth]

1 hour ago, Bycarsbill said:

how in the name of sanity are Labour possible going to be able to get a great new deal from the EU when Barnier and all the negotiators know that it would be in the best  the EU to offer the cra**iest of deals knowing that most of the Labour party  (as many shadow cabinet ministers have admitted) will be arguing for remain if it ever comes to a 2nd referendum campaign

As Labour's plan would keep the UK closely aligned with the EU, and we're not approaching it in an adversarial manner, I don't think our party's position is of any relevance. The things we want, such as protection of worker's rights, are lynchpins of the EU anyway so I'm not anticipating any conflict. You'll scoff but I think it's perfectly possible to negotiate a good deal that covers all of Labour's requirements, like a customs union, without stupid bluffs and counter-bluffs.

[geosname]

40 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Someone quoted that UK is in the top 1% for earnings in the World.

So poverty in the UK is so bad because people earn to much?

If people earned less the median income would come down and there would be less poverty.......? ........ that's not poverty as I know it

[Mario]

Talking of deals what about the EU talking to the USA about a trade deal Re. Drugs which could in time lead to the NHS being privatised or dismantled.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/666454/NHS-EU-killed-off-Brexit-Remain-Leave-referendum-Brussels-European-Union

[geosname]

I read somewhere the industries threatened with nationalisation are moving off shore.

[philpvfc]

1 hour ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Not this again. Due to the half-assed nature of the referendum, no-one knows what peple were voting for. Some may have wanted a no-deal exit, some may have wanted a customs union, some may have wanted australian points based immigration, there are a 1001 different ways and reasons that people voted and what they wanted and the only thing certain is that no-one can know what they were. At least we're pledging to get something concrete and asking if people want it or not.

Rubbish. The biggest 3 key points for people voting to leave were :

1. Stop free movement of people within the EU to try and contain immigration 

2. Stop paying the Hughes sums we pay to the EU each week

3. Be able to set up our own trade agreements with countries outside the EU.

corbyns Brexit plan will not allow any of these. It is a cop out.

[Bycarsbill]

13 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

As Labour's plan would keep the UK closely aligned with the EU, and we're not approaching it in an adversarial manner, I don't think our party's position is of any relevance. The things we want, such as protection of worker's rights, are lynchpins of the EU anyway so I'm not anticipating any conflict. You'll scoff but I think it's perfectly possible to negotiate a good deal that covers all of Labour's requirements, like a customs union, without stupid bluffs and counter-bluffs.

Not for the first time, you're missing he point.  It isn't their ability to negotiate a deal--the Eu will be only too pleased to grant them one, it's what they will do if and when they get one--campaign for it or, as is most likely by the majority in Labour--campaign against it?--can't you understand the complete irony, illogicality and hypocracy of that position? Three and a half years on and Labour still can't get its act together and agree between themselves what their position should be.

[philpvfc]

58 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Poverty in the UK is defined as 60% of median income, obviously that would be different in London and say North Staffs. Has to be related to location,  Someone quoted that UK is in the top 1% for earnings in the World.

Where did you get that definition from? 

[Fosse69]

2 minutes ago, geosname said:

So poverty in the UK is so bad because people earn to much?

If people earned less the median income would come down and there would be less poverty.......? ........ that's not poverty as I know it

Poverty is relative, I cannot remember people sleeping on the pavement when I was a lad, the UK is much wealthier now, and people are sleeping on the streets because accommodation is expensive and in short supply.. 

[Mario]

17 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Heh, I saw that. What a repugnant, morally bankrupt bunch of liars the tories are. Johnson leading from the top.

Being a political liar is par for the course unfortunately,Labour have had their share of truth benders in the shape of  Tony Bliar who incidentally was very critical of the " Fanciful promises" made by Corbyn and Johnson on the radio this morning.

If Corbyn doesn't deliver on his manifesto then surely he will be labelled the biggest liar and con man in political history.

[philpvfc]

Corbyn and Swinson are just as big a liars but some cannot see it, they are politicians, it is the qualification.