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Match Thread: Port Vale v Stevenage

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2 minutes ago, geosname said:

Sorry mate it was a reaction to the result not your post.... which is a very fair comment

Fair does. No problem mate,

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5 hours ago, Old fort said:

Fed up about listening to the Ray Williams love child Tom Pope love in. First thing Tom did when he came on was to concede a foul and the last thing he did was to concede another oul, but enough said on that matter. Right now we look like we are trying to accommodate a system, rather than helping our players to play to their strengths. Tom is a great talisman, but is not the answer that makes all our problems disappear, so apologies for the unintended direct criticism, as we would be a poorer team without Tom at our disposal.

  • Worral playing too deep most of the time, therefore stifling his ability to hurt teams offensively. Worral is not a like for like replacement for Manny, so don’t use him as such.  He should be on the right wing in place of the inconsistent Amoo, where he’s been most effective, particularly when supported by a right back to link with. 
  • Amoo, impact sub as an option to add fresh legs if needed
  • Montano, hardly ever has a good game when in the starting eleven, read for Amoo
  • Back four are on the whole steady when it comes to basic defending, but apart from Atkinson, are woefully uncomfortable on the ball which results in the alarming surrender of possession with Crookes looking like a liability coupled with a general theme of poor decision making which runs throughout the team. 
  • Midfield unit lack forward drive and are defensively set up which means that apart from the exception rather than the rule, aren’t able to productively support in a creative or offensive capacity, which is why we’re struggling to pose much threat, even when Colon is there, because he’s quickly evolving in to another backwards sideways player.  We may seem like we’ve missed him, but before his injury, he’d also started to have some poor performances 
  • No problem with Joyce as a sitting midfielder, but we can’t have three of them, which is why Worral needs to be released to the right and young Burgess needs to be reinstated with positive brief, with Taylor linking with him and Joyce.
  • In attack, as mentioned above, midfield needs more incisive contribution to support whoever is the lead striker. Bennett has ability to create for himself and is willing to unleash that left foot but can look average if the midfield link up isn’t happening. Archer has lots of promise, but needs a break to get long enough on the field to show why he should be there, the odd ten minutes won’t prove anything.
  • Left side as a whole is a bit of a conundrum with little depth and needs urgent attention to strengthen and balance the team. 
  • One final point on the overall improvement or otherwise, is that we all want to see progress and many on OVF want to see this in significant ways. Perhaps this is because they think we’re better or should be better than we are. Well for me, the unholy mess that the club was in up to May 5th shows progress by the very nature that we have games to actually come and watch.  Right now we’re not great and in a poor vein of form and yes areas of the squad needs improvement. Who really thought that this was going to be instant or without issues, or even mistakes being made?  Years of rot are not rectified with quick fixes and it may take longer than many are prepared to wait to achieve success on the field.  As supporters, it doesn’t mean that we can’t have a moan and express opinion and concerns when we’re not top of the league, but we can only make a positive impact by actually supporting the club, so as Vale supporters, let’s have a go at doing just that 

This is an excellent post.

Constructive and contextual.

Brilliant.

  • Like 3

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Personally I think yesterday was a hangover from the disaster of last week. By all means go back to the basics of the 4-3-3 system we’ve used but for me I think we should have gone with some players in different roles to make them more effective.

As already touched on I think Worrall is wasted as part of the midfield 3, he would be wide right every time for me. He offers too much there to be sacrificed in a deeper role. As a result of moving him I’d have played Atkinson in the middle to get on the ball and try and dictate play, that would have meant Gibbons in at right back. (I think he was unlucky to have had 1 dodgy game and then be dropped immediately). Our best formation IMO sees him and Worrall on that right hand side. I’d have started Amoo to the left and I’d also start with Pope rather than him being a sub and then change that later in the game if need be.

As it stood though and as the game unfolded yesterday I thought there were some performances that looked half hearted to me. In particular from the front 3. At times Amoo was strolling around, he could be an unbelievable player as he has everything, but you can see why he’s been mainly stuck at league 2 level all his career. He doesn’t show what he can do enough. We know what we’ll get from Monty, some flashes of brilliance and he’ll disappear for spells. But yesterday I thought he was anonymous for most of the game and that left hand side is a worry. Bennett is such a frustrating player, he does not put himself about enough, he is not physical enough, he doesn’t win enough headers (in fact he looks a player who doesn’t want to head it) and with him as the focal point of the front 3 we are almost a man down at times and again he’s strolling around for much of the game. He was lucky to stay on the pitch yesterday and not be subbed IMO. I said on here at some point during the game that Bennett hasn’t won a header in the box yet, that almost came back to haunt me as he got on the end of a great ball in from Gibbo late on. He should have done better with it and it’s a pity that one didn’t fall to Pope. 

Funnily enough in that second half someone shouted at Askey from behind me saying “get Popey and Gibbo on, they’ll play for the shirt”. I didn’t see enough desire yesterday from players. I’m not saying those 2 were the answer, but I think it highlighted what we all saw yesterday and that went against our previous games. Players giving it there all and looking like they wanted to put in a shift for us. But as an attacking force we hardly got anything going, we had a few good spells maybe, but overall it was so scrappy, we looked disjointed and we didn’t get back to how we know that we can play. In the end we let them dictate the play for most of the second half and again I think Askey was too slow to react with his changes. As the game wore on I think it was beginning to pass Taylor by. I know we’re all football managers ourselves but I think I would have done the changes earlier. But someone please tell me what the point of Gibbo coming on with only ten minutes was about?  Who can affect a game in such a short space of time? Anyway I think he should have been bold and been bold earlier, with Monty, Taylor and Bennet off and Gibbo, Pope and Archer on. That would have given us 2 different striker options up front and Worrall and Gibbo back down the right. 

Having seen the highlights back this morning, that pull back by Crookes on their lad looks more visible than it did on yesterday’s slowed down close up on here. Certainly the lads gone down easy, but the pull is there. The subject of Crookes, is a bit of an elephant in the room, he gave the ball away a lot in the first half and got caught out defensively more than once too, especially in the second half. It’s a concern for sure, but we don’t have any other options there do we. So I don’t know what the answer is, but it definitely isn’t dropping Monty back though.

I listened to Williams comments on the radio before as we drove in and after the game on the way home, I think he was spot on with what he was saying about the selection and then the subsequent performance. It’s frustrating to watch when something looks like it’s not working and the mangers waits and waits to change it. We aren’t proactive enough in changing things. Their wingbacks rarely got forward and I think we could have gone 2 up top a lot earlier than we did. But I actually think we were lucky to get away with a draw because they had some good chances in that second half, arguably much better than we created all game. 

I’ve no idea what we do for the Bradford game after that yesterday. Stay as we are or make some changes?

Edited by PV1973
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So Burgess and Archer do not get a look in yet we continue all game with players who were not quite at it .

The pen for me was a pen disappointing because we scored a lovely goal it we had 67 minutes to raise the performance and get the win ,to read we were indebted to Scott Brown tells you all that we are doing our usual sliding down the table and non performing act .

Worrall is not a central midfielder and he should be put in the position he plays his best football in right half .

Burgess to be reinstated and Brisley to put in a three at the back with Gibbons and Montano as attacking full backs 

Archer and Pope to lead the attack and Burgess to bomb on with Taylor ,Joyce to be dropped .

Try something new wearers predictable as .

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You clearly underestimate the colossal damage Smurthwaite did to the club.

It isn't a quick fix.


How can you blame Smurthwaite for poor tactics and team-selection?
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Less concerned about who/what formation we play, more concerned about how those players who are selected perform. Struggling to think of any outfield player who came out of the last 2 games with any credit, no surprise Brown won MOTM.  Amoo looked like he was strolling along the promenade at Blackpool, only thing missing was a parasol.  Having said that agree playing Worrall in midfield takes away his good work out wide, surely where we get the best from him.

Interesting reflecting on Tom Pope's comment in the Sentinel after the Mac game " If 11 players dont perform, you've got no chance " Spot on Tom the fans agree with you 100%. Following the Stevenage game one can only assume your team mates dont read the Sentinel.

 

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22 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

16th, which is where we now are...isn’t mid table. 

2 points cover positions 8 to 16, but where will we be after the next 3 games?

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2 hours ago, PV1973 said:
 

Personally I think yesterday was a hangover from the disaster of last week. By all means go back to the basics of the 4-3-3 system we’ve used but for me I think we should have gone with some players in different roles to make them more effective.

As already touched on I think Worrall is wasted as part of the midfield 3, he would be wide right every time for me. He offers too much there to be sacrificed in a deeper role. As a result of moving him I’d have played Atkinson in the middle to get on the ball and try and dictate play, that would have meant Gibbons in at right back. (I think he was unlucky to have had 1 dodgy game and then be dropped immediately). Our best formation IMO sees him and Worrall on that right hand side. I’d have started Amoo to the left and I’d also start with Pope rather than him being a sub and then change that later in the game if need be.

As it stood though and as the game unfolded yesterday I thought there were some performances that looked half hearted to me. In particular from the front 3. At times Amoo was strolling around, he could be an unbelievable player as he has everything, but you can see why he’s been mainly stuck at league 2 level all his career. He doesn’t show what he can do enough. We know what we’ll get from Monty, some flashes of brilliance and he’ll disappear for spells. But yesterday I thought he was anonymous for most of the game and that left hand side is a worry. Bennett is such a frustrating player, he does not put himself about enough, he is not physical enough, he doesn’t win enough headers (in fact he looks a player who doesn’t want to head it) and with him as the focal point of the front 3 we are almost a man down at times and again he’s strolling around for much of the game. He was lucky to stay on the pitch yesterday and not be subbed IMO. I said on here at some point during the game that Bennett hasn’t won a header in the box yet, that almost came back to haunt me as he got on the end of a great ball in from Gibbo late on. He should have done better with it and it’s a pity that one didn’t fall to Pope. 

Funnily enough in that second half someone shouted at Askey from behind me saying “get Popey and Gibbo on, they’ll play for the shirt”. I didn’t see enough desire yesterday from players. I’m not saying those 2 were the answer, but I think it highlighted what we all saw yesterday and that went against our previous games. Players giving it there all and looking like they wanted to put in a shift for us. But as an attacking force we hardly got anything going, we had a few good spells maybe, but overall it was so scrappy, we looked disjointed and we didn’t get back to how we know that we can play. In the end we let them dictate the play for most of the second half and again I think Askey was too slow to react with his changes. As the game wore on I think it was beginning to pass Taylor by. I know we’re all football managers ourselves but I think I would have done the changes earlier. But someone please tell me what the point of Gibbo coming on with only ten minutes was about?  Who can affect a game in such a short space of time? Anyway I think he should have been bold and been bold earlier, with Monty, Taylor and Bennet off and Gibbo, Pope and Archer on. That would have given us 2 different striker options up front and Worrall and Gibbo back down the right. 

Having seen the highlights back this morning, that pull back by Crookes on their lad looks more visible than it did on yesterday’s slowed down close up on here. Certainly the lads gone down easy, but the pull is there. The subject of Crookes, is a bit of an elephant in the room, he gave the ball away a lot in the first half and got caught out defensively more than once too, especially in the second half. It’s a concern for sure, but we don’t have any other options there do we. So I don’t know what the answer is, but it definitely isn’t dropping Monty back though.

I listened to Williams comments on the radio before as we drove in and after the game on the way home, I think he was spot on with what he was saying about the selection and then the subsequent performance. It’s frustrating to watch when something looks like it’s not working and the mangers waits and waits to change it. We aren’t proactive enough in changing things. Their wingbacks rarely got forward and I think we could have gone 2 up top a lot earlier than we did. But I actually think we were lucky to get away with a draw because they had some good chances in that second half, arguably much better than we created all game. 

I’ve no idea what we do for the Bradford game after that yesterday. Stay as we are or make some changes?

Absolutely spot on. great post.

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34 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

16th, which is where we now are...isn’t mid table. 

Seen as 12th and 13th are the two middle points of the table and 23rd place stay up, if 16th isn't midtable then what is?

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37 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

2 points cover positions 8 to 16, but where will we

The fact that we could have been 8th is irrelevant , its obvious to anyone we haven't got a team /squad that will be pressing for the play offs !

To be in the playoffs we are going to have to accumulate at least 70 points , which even now would mean we would need to win 1 out of every 2 games for the rest of the season, given we cant win away from home that's highly unlikely !    

 

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40 minutes ago, Wrex said:

Seen as 12th and 13th are the two middle points of the table and 23rd place stay up, if 16th isn't midtable then what is?

Well by your point not 16th. 

Basically the same as the last two seasons 

Edited by valiant_593

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On the discussion about our best starting line up, more than a few posters have said that the best we've played this season was the first half at Orient. The line up that day, after Manny had gone off on 9 minutes, was:

Brown

Gibson  Legge  Smith  Crookes

Taylor  Joyce  Burgess

Worrall  Pope  Amoo

This selection had the benefit of keeping the Gibbo/Worrall partnership on the right with Worrall in his best position and two attacking midfield players in front of Joyce. Don't know what went wrong in the second half because I wasn't there but this seems to have produced the best spell of form we've had. Time to revert back to this starting line up, perhaps. 

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Left back is a problem area for us and continues to be so. Campbell-Gordon isnt ready yet. Monty would be a liability there. If the management deemed things to be so bad the only other option I see is Gibbons there, he played there at the back end of the 2017-2018 season if I remember correctly. But yet again we’d be making do and arguably weakening our right hand side possibly. I think left back is the only area that we’re short in and can see someone coming in in January. 

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49 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

Left back is a problem area for us and continues to be so. Campbell-Gordon isnt ready yet. Monty would be a liability there. If the management deemed things to be so bad the only other option I see is Gibbons there, he played there at the back end of the 2017-2018 season if I remember correctly. But yet again we’d be making do and arguably weakening our right hand side possibly. I think left back is the only area that we’re short in and can see someone coming in in January. 

Taylor can play at LB says so himself, can’t be no worse than Crookes put it that way 

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