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geosname

NHS The sinking flagship

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Seems a hot topic, especially around elections.

 

Should we just keep throwing money at it?

Should we tear it down and rebuild it on the same basic principals?

Should we sell it off?

 

There isn't a simple answer, there never is, my prefered option would be 2.

 

Not in favour of 3 at all.

 

Opinions please.

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It's the same with all elections Geo: they waffle on about health, law & order and education with promises of utopian experiences for the masses only to default to same old, same old post election.

 

Just as it is in this neck of the woods where vox populi demand governments deliver the very best in all three areas without putting too much pressure on the national and state budgets.

 

Sadly, as Brexit illuminates, politicians don't give a rodents posterior for vox populi.

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Well, it's not going to be supported by Boris threatening higher rate tax cuts, just as our vital public services like the NHS need a massive injection of cash.

 

I worked in the public sector for 33 years, the whole time in an atmosphere of cuts and privatisations. I can tell you that the only benefit was to the private service providers who had their not inconsiderable profits funded from the public purse. The services they provided were at best as good as the public sector organisations they replaced (often utilising the same staff taken on when the service was externalised) and were often worse.

 

So no, I don't think the NHS should be privatised and furthermore I think all the external contracts should come back in house. In fact, there's a benefit to be achieved by doing away with the pointless internal market needed in opening services to competition.

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Money will always need to be 'thrown' at the NHS, that's the nature of it. How can it function in any other way? Throwing money at the NHS was a good idea when Boris put it on the side of a bus.

 

I'd hate to see us move towards an American system. The NHS was born out of the post-war consensus, a social contract that has been steadily dismantled over the last 40 years.

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Under funded, under staffed, no staff planning, the 5th richest country in the world, if it was used by the rich it would not be in this state.

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The concept is great, the actuality is a dying duck.

There is no quick fix, it's failing in far to many places to just give it a few tweaks and send it on its way again. Times have changed since it's inception but sadly the service hasn't been able to keep pace with the changes.

I think the only way to get the NHS into a good position is to build a system to take over..... then demolish it.

Throwing money at it won't fix it, it just fills the empty corners.

I've had a few problems with the NHS which I suppose colour my judgement a little, personally and with other family members.... with the service and people in the service.... but I still think it's the best idea we ever had.

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Under funded, under staffed, no staff planning, the 5th richest country in the world, if it was used by the rich it would not be in this state.

 

The rich don't get sick fosse..... they go a little off colour when share prices and dividends drop :yes:

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Under funded, under staffed, no staff planning, the 5th richest country in the world, if it was used by the rich it would not be in this state.

 

It's the same in the education sector as well. If you can afford it you can send your children to a well funded private school with class sizes of less than 10-12 and all the resources and staff in the world, available 24/7, but not most local state schools.

Some of the "top" independent schools now charge over 30k a year per pupil. How many can afford to pay for a privilege like that?

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It’s worth noting that we pay less of our taxes towards the NHS than the US government contributes to their health care system, and yet ours is universal (and our life expectancy is higher). ‘Throwing’ more money at it is not a bad thing. Unless you want to cut public services on ideological grounds so you can say they aren’t working.

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The problem with the NHS is all the wasted money.

 

A few examples, we built a new eye clinic at hospital in Staffordshire, the hospital ordered 4 new gurneys at a cost of 5k each.

When they arrived they wouldn’t fit through the doors.

So send them back and get some narrower ones? oh no.

They went into a skip and 4 more were ordered.

The same hospital had 2 operating theatres, theatre 1 and theatre 2, we built another one ( theatre 3).

A top surgeon was lined up for the new theatre, but he refused to start unless his theatre was theatre no 1.

It cost 80k to change the plans of the hospital so that theatre 3 was now theatre 1.theres loads more I could mention.

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We are all getting older and living longer. An ageing population with more medicines available for ever more complex illnesses. So more money just to stand still. Perhaps we need to use it less trivially and remember its a National not an International health service. As someone said earlier better efficiencies but perhaps we ought to realise more money is needed and if that's an extra 2p on Income Tax then that's the price we need to pay.

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Not sure what the answer is but any Government can throw as much money at it as they can and it will still be under funded and struggle. It needs a big reform/ restructure but it will take a brave Government to take that risk.

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It would also need a cross-party approach and, unfortunately, I can't see that ever happening. Having said that, things are looking up as I'm led to believe we'll be spending an extra £350,000,000 a week on it as soon as we leave the EU.

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It would also need a cross-party approach and, unfortunately, I can't see that ever happening. Having said that, things are looking up as I'm led to believe we'll be spending an extra £350,000,000 a week on it as soon as we leave the EU.

 

350,000,000 would buy more plasters and bandages to hold it together but I doubt it would improve it.

From the cradle to the grave should be just that.

Everything under one umbrella.....

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Not sure what the answer is but any Government can throw as much money at it as they can and it will still be under funded and struggle. It needs a big reform/ restructure but it will take a brave Government to take that risk.

 

Newspaper report this morning of 100,000 vacancies but I assume that includes social services as well, nurse training has taken a nosedive, EU staff not so interested in working here now, 30,000 additional foreign nurses cancelled. Simple finance is £ 4% p.a. growth in real terms, as averaged pre 2010, cuts cannot improve anything due to age profile of post war baby boom.

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More efficiency less waste for me.

 

Pouring money into it will delay the problems not solve them.

 

Tell you what RB, come to work with me at the Royal Stoke and you can point out to me where all these so called wastes and inefficiencies are.

 

I tell you what, there is no sector that has been more effectively policed than the public sector in general and the NHS in particular. If there was any fat in the system - and I'm not naive enough to assume there wasn't - then it's long gone. The major costs after those of staff (and I hope you'll agree with me that they're worth what they're paid) are for drugs, over which the NHS has no control. That's down to market forces but I'm sure you'll understand how that works don't you?

 

It's very easy for the uninformed to have a go at public sector organisations. Don't join them.

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Talking of drugs.. and prices.

 

Warfarin here costs £2 for a months supply

Flecanide acetate £5

Omeprazole £2

 

Paracetamol £1.20 per 100

 

The above are retail prices..... not wholesale or direct from the manufacturer... all imported from Europe.

 

I'm guessing each item on a scrip is about £9? now.

 

If the NHS isn't getting cheaper something is wrong...... I know it's not that simple.

 

Why not set up a nationalised dispenser..... take it out of the hands of pharmacies.

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