May on the way??

[TheSage]

Economic matters are very complicated and intertwined. Like all statistics, all sides use them to prove their point. But it's very often not as simple as that.

In general, economies go forward in peaks and troughs, boom and bust, and have followed a similar pattern for years. After a fall there is always a recovery.

Rock bottom interest rates, quantitative easing, a global recovery - these factors and more have all assisted the economy..

But the economy is growing extremely slowly, productivity is down, inward investment is down and the debt has gone up astronomically.

On the other hand, the deficit is down, employment is at record levels (though the figures can be questioned) and we are slowly coming out of recession.

However, the uncertainty over Brexit and a growing ageing population necessarily means that we face some enormous economic decisions ahead, not least of which is who pays for the growing number of retired folk, their pensions and their care? We are not out of the woods by a long stretch. Look at the high streets, the holes in the roads, the lack of social care, the number of homeless, the rise in food banks, the lack of investment in the public sector, crime, transport, and on and on and on. Ten years of austerity has caused lots of problems and one of my worries all along with Brexit is that if we can't get a sensible deal that doesn't trash our already fragile economy then I fear we're in for another severe downturn on top of 2008 and decades more of pain and stagnation which we can't afford. Some might call it Project Fear but when I look around me [and see your anecdotal evidence] I don't see a lot of good news in the place where I live.

 

[Fosse69]

14 minutes ago, TheSage said:

Economic matters are very complicated and intertwined. Like all statistics, all sides use them to prove their point. But it's very often not as simple as that.

In general, economies go forward in peaks and troughs, boom and bust, and have followed a similar pattern for years. After a fall there is always a recovery.

Rock bottom interest rates, quantitative easing, a global recovery - these factors and more have all assisted the economy..

But the economy is growing extremely slowly, productivity is down, inward investment is down and the debt has gone up astronomically.

On the other hand, the deficit is down, employment is at record levels (though the figures can be questioned) and we are slowly coming out of recession.

However, the uncertainty over Brexit and a growing ageing population necessarily means that we face some enormous economic decisions ahead, not least of which is who pays for the growing number of retired folk, their pensions and their care? We are not out of the woods by a long stretch. Look at the high streets, the holes in the roads, the lack of social care, the number of homeless, the rise in food banks, the lack of investment in the public sector, crime, transport, and on and on and on. Ten years of austerity has caused lots of problems and one of my worries all along with Brexit is that if we can't get a sensible deal that doesn't trash our already fragile economy then I fear we're in for another severe downturn on top of 2008 and decades more of pain and stagnation which we can't afford. Some might call it Project Fear but when I look around me [and see your anecdotal evidence] I don't see a lot of good news in the place where I live.

 

Does not the Laffer curve only kick in for tax rates above 70%?

[ginge]

13 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Off topic, but what did you think of Donald Trump's 'go home' speech and the subsequent 'send her back' chants?

Racist.

Even his pal Piers Morgan thought it was.

[ginge]

On 18/07/2019 at 13:09, cheshirevaliant said:

I watched the final hustings last night between Johnson and Hunt. Whilst I agreed with some of what they both said, and disagreed with more, it always staggers me the times when politicians answer questions by saying "I know this isn't working, but if I was in charge, it would definitely work". What have you been doing for the past 9 years that you have been in power? 

The last Labour government were as guilty of this as the current Conservatives by the way. I think it is time for a change of government but I don't see who would do a better job. I agree with a fair bit of what Corbyn says, but he is not a statesman in my eyes. His career has been built on heckling from the sidelines, Statler and Waldorf style and I'm not sure he has the gumption to convince "Middle England" to believe in him even if they believe in his policies, in the way that Blair and Cameron did. 

Boris was done up like the kipper he was waving around.

What a lying clownfish he is.

[Paul6754]

6 hours ago, ginge said:

Racist.

Even his pal Piers Morgan thought it was.

Explain why you consider Trump's comments were racist.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Do you not feel that telling US born people of colour to 'go home' is racist? 

[Regal Beagle]

On 19/07/2019 at 08:52, mr.hobblesworth said:

Off topic, but what did you think of Donald Trump's 'go home' speech and the subsequent 'send her back' chants?

The chants aren't great. The tweets were carefully orchastrated by Trump's team to bury news about a new immigration law he tried to slide in and also to promote the mental AOC and Omar to the forefront of the democrats. I'm not sure what Trump said was racist at all unless you do some mental gymnastics and take it out of context, but it obviously did result in the chants and whether or not they were intended, he is responsible for it in some way.

Again, with this outrage against "racism" nowadays, if you look closer at Ilhan Omar she actively holds heinous and disgusting views but no one ever calls her out on it. If we're that bothered about stopping hate then we should call out everyone. It seems at the moment that the people who claim to care only call out their opponents which makes me doubt their motives and distrust their opinion.

 

 

[ginge]

4 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Explain why you consider Trump's comments were racist.

Explain why you consider the send her back chants not racist

[geosname]

I would suggest it should be considered in context..... what was said/happened to illicit the remark?

[TheSage]

On 19/07/2019 at 10:30, Fosse69 said:

Does not the Laffer curve only kick in for tax rates above 70%?

I think accepted wisdom is probably around that point yes but as economies have so many variables and are constantly changing it's hard to know where precisely the optimum point is, though clearly you can't over tax everyone or you destroy incentives and it's not worth working at all. But it was one of the big theories behind supply side economics in the late seventies(?)

Naturally, very high earners quote it as gospel but I think it's largely been debunked now. Regan tried it but doubled the budget deficit and tripled the debt. And didn't Kansas try it in 2012, with disastrous results?

[Fosse69]

41 minutes ago, TheSage said:

I think accepted wisdom is probably around that point yes but as economies have so many variables and are constantly changing it's hard to know where precisely the optimum point is, though clearly you can't over tax everyone or you destroy incentives and it's not worth working at all. But it was one of the big theories behind supply side economics in the late seventies(?)

Naturally, very high earners quote it as gospel but I think it's largely been debunked now. Regan tried it but doubled the budget deficit and tripled the debt. And didn't Kansas try it in 2012, with disastrous results?

I think I read lately that the G7 agenda will cover international tax rates, one aspect of which will be to stop beggar my neighbour tactics, such as reducing corporate taxes. Whether anything will be done is a different matter.

[ginge]

Conservative members as young as 15 have been allowed to vote for the next PM. But they don't want 16/17 year olds voting in a general election. 

Hypocrisy.

[geosname]

37 minutes ago, ginge said:

Conservative members as young as 15 have been allowed to vote for the next PM. But they don't want 16/17 year olds voting in a general election. 

Hypocrisy.

Why?

Until the age of 18 you are a minor...... that in itself does not preclude you from all voting.

[ginge]

3 hours ago, geosname said:

Why?

Until the age of 18 you are a minor...... that in itself does not preclude you from all voting.

So they should be allowed to vote for the prime minister in a leadership contest, but not capable of doing it in a general election? Tell me why one requires more responsibility?

[Paul6754]

6 hours ago, ginge said:

Explain why you consider the send her back chants not racist

So you don't have any explanation other than Piers Morgan's comment.

Explain how "Send them back" chants are racist.