Brexit again...

[Regal Beagle]

4 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Agreed.  Because the word compromise has been eliminated from political language.

Don't worry, we'll be out of the EU soon and we can compromise with like minded nations at will!

[TheSage]

By 2021 there will be 5-6 million more young people voting (currently aged 13-17), the majority of whom want to remain in the EU, while a similar number will have dropped off their perch at the other end, so our future in Europe will be assured. You heard it here first.

But back to this myth that closing down Parliament for 5 weeks is not a democratic outrage. I'm sorry but it is. It hasn't been attempted since Atlee's post war days. MPs had not yet voted on recess so we don't know if they would have continued working or not. Prof Colin Talbot of Cambridge University says it is abnormal and we haven't had a gap of more than 3 weeks in 40 years. So nearly 5 weeks is virtually unprecedented and quite extraordinary. His words, not mine. Every constitutional expert will tell you the same thing. A few days is normal, not 5 weeks. And in these highly unusual and important times for the country I suspect that most voters would want Parliament sitting. It's a way to shut down debate, typically seen in tin pot dictatorships.

But the main reason why we haven't left is because we never had a sensible plan and MPs can now see the consequences of a crash and burn Brexit, as evidenced in Operation Yellowhammer [that the government will not publish], and like turkeys don't want to vote for Xmas. The vote was predicated on this notion that we'd get a good deal and we'd hold all the cards, not Yellowhammer and economic dislocation. Oh no. Had that been outlined and published no-one would have voted to leave. 

 

 

 

[Regal Beagle]

26 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Couldn't agree more.  There are a couple of posters on here who would support a no deal Brexit even if you said it would mean they would have to have their right arm amputated.  Neither of them said anything about no deal in the immediate post-referendum discussions, however.

I was hoping to trap you LBW here but you've sneakily ignored my post.

I suspect you are referring to me and so I've only had a quick scan at my own posts (I'm sure I could probably find similar from my fellow brexiteers because we're generally highly intelligent and observant people).

 

I've tried not to selectively quote here so if you are concerned about context, let me know and I'll link you to the full message:

 

27th June 2016 - " I sincerely hope in 20 years time, we can be in a FREE TRADE AGREEMENT with our european neighbours that is FREE. And I believe we have taken the first positive step to realising that. "

 

25th January 2017 - "No one who voted to leave the EU wants to stay in the single market unless we can have full control of our borders.

By all means we should be looking to open negotiations with the EU, but we as a country have voted to be outside of the free movement of people. It absolutely should be a deal breaker."

 

16th June 2017 - "Ideally we will stay in the single market but the Brexit vote shows that the majority think that the price (free movement of people) is too high.

That's where negotiations come in, can we retain trade access without free movement? That's the question. And many of the leave campaign, and Theresa May believe that no deal is better than free movement of people."

 

30th June 2018 - " What is the problem then? If we're free to trade with whoever we want on whatever terms we want, then we don't need a deal, we don't need to be in the EU either way. Great. "

 

Coinidentally I found 3 examples from June in 2016, 17 and 18 where I was supporting a deal but only if the price is right and also where I supported completely free trade in the days after the referendum (ie no political strings attached).

Please ignore the Theresa May bit, I got that wrong, but then again remainers are known for their horrendous lies and I unfortunately got taken in by one there.

 

We were talking about no deal, unfortunately the last 3 years has shown that the EU will sink to new lows in order to avoid giving us a good deal.

It's simply not true to suggest otherwise. Facts don't matter, again, it would seem.

[Jacko51]

This is a fascinating piece about Cummings and his plan!

https://unherd.com/2019/08/dominic-cummings-is-no-chicken/

[geosname]

21 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Johnson  Is he a slow learner or summat??

That's dangerous hate speech...... isn't it?

[Regal Beagle]

2 minutes ago, TheSage said:

By 2021 there will be 5-6 million more young people voting (currently aged 13-17), the majority of whom want to remain in the EU, while a similar number will have dropped off their perch at the other end, so our future in Europe will be assured. You heard it here first.

But back to this myth that closing down Parliament for 5 weeks is not a democratic outrage. I'm sorry but it is. It hasn't been attempted since Atlee's post war days. MPs had not yet voted on recess so we don't know if they would have continued working or not. Prof Colin Talbot of Cambridge University says it is abnormal and we haven't had a gap of more than 3 weeks in 40 years. So nearly 5 weeks is virtually unprecedented and quite extraordinary. His words, not mine. Every constitutional expert will tell you the same thing. A few days is normal, not 5 weeks. And in these highly unusual and important times for the country I suspect that most voters would want Parliament sitting. It's a way to shut down debate, typically seen in tin pot dictatorships.

But the main reason why we haven't left is because we never had a sensible plan and MPs can now see the consequences of a crash and burn Brexit, as evidenced in Operation Yellowhammer [that the government will not publish], and like turkeys don't want to vote for Xmas. The vote was predicated on this notion that we'd get a good deal and we'd hold all the cards, not Yellowhammer and economic dislocation. Oh no. Had that been outlined and published no-one would have voted to leave. 

 

 

 

The desperate remainer death rattle. RIP remainers.

[Jacko51]

1 minute ago, geosname said:

That's dangerous hate speech...... isn't it?

No, it's a tongue in cheek comment as you well know!

[geosname]

8 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

No, it's a tongue in cheek comment as you well know!

Oh Jean..... I was trying my bestest to be PC...... with a smile on my face

[geosname]

16 minutes ago, TheSage said:

By 2021 there will be 5-6 million more young people voting (currently aged 13-17), the majority of whom want to remain in the EU, while a similar number will have dropped off their perch at the other end, so our future in Europe will be assured. You heard it here first.

But back to this myth that closing down Parliament for 5 weeks is not a democratic outrage. I'm sorry but it is. It hasn't been attempted since Atlee's post war days. MPs had not yet voted on recess so we don't know if they would have continued working or not. Prof Colin Talbot of Cambridge University says it is abnormal and we haven't had a gap of more than 3 weeks in 40 years. So nearly 5 weeks is virtually unprecedented and quite extraordinary. His words, not mine. Every constitutional expert will tell you the same thing. A few days is normal, not 5 weeks. And in these highly unusual and important times for the country I suspect that most voters would want Parliament sitting. It's a way to shut down debate, typically seen in tin pot dictatorships.

But the main reason why we haven't left is because we never had a sensible plan and MPs can now see the consequences of a crash and burn Brexit, as evidenced in Operation Yellowhammer [that the government will not publish], and like turkeys don't want to vote for Xmas. The vote was predicated on this notion that we'd get a good deal and we'd hold all the cards, not Yellowhammer and economic dislocation. Oh no. Had that been outlined and published no-one would have voted to leave. 

 

 

 

I thought the voting age was 18...... I must have missed the reduction.

If it hasn't changed 13 14 15 year olds won't be able to vote in 2 years time..... it's possible some 16 year old won't be able to vote either.

We should rejoice in that.

[geosname]

39 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Agreed.  Because the word compromise has been eliminated from political language.

Along with truthful. 

[Mario]

There is an irony that the remainers vowed to do "Anything" to thwart Brexit "Anything" at all to deny the democratic vote to leave, and when Johnson proposes to suspend Parliament which he is quite entitled to do  they cry foul.

And John Major can button it,he suspended Parliament to avoid an investigation into MP's expenses hypocritical or what.

[Mario]

9 minutes ago, geosname said:

Along with truthful. 

And honesty.

[Jacko51]

10 minutes ago, Mario said:

 

And John Major can button it,he suspended Parliament to avoid an investigation into MP's expenses hypocritical or what.

That's not actually true.  The investigation had already taken place, it was its publication that was delayed.  And it wasn't about Mps expenses, it was about the cash for questions.  The report was published two months after the general election which followed the prorogation.

[Fosse69]

54 minutes ago, geosname said:

I think it's normally done to announce what a new government wants to do.

That doesn't mean Boris isn't trying to pull the wool..... I suspect he will be laying out his agenda for an election.... a huge swing away from brexit, concentrating on the voters.

Prorogation is a short break between parliamentary sessions, either after an election, or usually annually followed by the Queen opening parliament, the speech is then voted upon. For the first time ever we have had a PM elected without a national election, also the longest ever session of parliament because May could not risk a Queens Speech vote during Brexit. Another month or so would make no difference as Brexit is the only thing happening in parliament..

[Fosse69]

20 minutes ago, Mario said:

There is an irony that the remainers vowed to do "Anything" to thwart Brexit "Anything" at all to deny the democratic vote to leave, and when Johnson proposes to suspend Parliament which he is quite entitled to do  they cry foul.

And John Major can button it,he suspended Parliament to avoid an investigation into MP's expenses hypocritical or what.

Remainers were not the only ones voting against May`s deal, what about the 75 or so no-dealers on the government benches. The function of the opposition is to keep the Govt in check.