Brexit again...

[Regal Beagle]

On 24/08/2019 at 21:48, Regal Beagle said:

It's a lot of garbage that's why.

I find it odd how you are in support of all of our democratic rights being snatched away.

It is actually disgusting that we are still in the eu and if you had any principles at all you would be far more concerned with that than what some second rate economist has been paid to say. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, next time you could be on the wrong side of a vote which is ignored by our political class. Dont come crying to me. 

Hopefully we are out by November first in a clean brexit and democracy will have prevailed. 

Here is what i posted on Saturday by the way. I didn't quite expect it so soon, and it's not exactly the scenario I painted. But I did warn you all...Do not come crying to me when it is YOUR democracy under attack, not after the views you have held for the past 3 years.

 

And this is when your democracy is not even under attack. Imagine that feeling of rage you have now only it is actually legitimate?

[geosname]

The 5 weeks covers a huge chunk of the conference season when parliament does even less than usual.

Suspending parliament isn't uncommon, the fact that this session is the longest in 400 years should tell you that.

The simple fact is that politicians who have spent over 3 years contemplating their naval still don't know what to do.

If a no deal was an absolute none starter they shouldn't have voted for article 50.

They wasted over 3 years and are now crapping themselves over a few days

[Jacko51]

1 hour ago, Davebrad said:

 democracy is about asking the people to vote on a matter then parliament who are supposed to be better informed are able to deliver a result for what the majority voted for.

That is exactly the point.  The majority in Parliament do not think that a NO DEAL is the best way to exit the EU.  This is because, as you say, they are better informed.

 

[Jacko51]

40 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Can those saying the precedent has already been set please point out where exactly?

He is shutting Parliment down for 5 WEEKS not 4 days as some keep repeating.  There is no modern day precedent for this.

Now I agree with some points of view on here from both sides.  If Parliment were so hell bent on avoiding a no deal they should have voted for May's deal because that's about as good as it gets.  If Parliment are hell bent on not coming out they should propose and vote accordingly but of course who has the nuts to propose a motion going against the referendum.

However, pretending that pushing through with leaving because it's the only way to preserve democracy whilst simultaneously denying that suspending parliment is undemocratic is insane.  In fact I genuinely worry about a couple of you on here because some of you just talk absolute <ovf censored>.  Sage argues a good case and often offers supporting evidence.  I have seen 1 or 2 in the other camp do the same but there are 3 posters on here who are firmly rooted in the brexit at any cost camp who are portraying themselves as complete and utter tossers and I am surprised anybody bothers to engage them because they are either very very stupid or on the wind up.  

 

Couldn't agree more.  There are a couple of posters on here who would support a no deal Brexit even if you said it would mean they would have to have their right arm amputated.  Neither of them said anything about no deal in the immediate post-referendum discussions, however.

I didn't like the result.  I accept it's going to happen but frankly, I'd rather have the prospect of a deal that will make life difficult rather than a no deal which will make life bloody impossible.

 

[Jacko51]

8 minutes ago, geosname said:

The 5 weeks covers a huge chunk of the conference season when parliament does even less than usual.

Suspending parliament isn't uncommon, the fact that this session is the longest in 400 years should tell you that.

The simple fact is that politicians who have spent over 3 years contemplating their naval still don't know what to do.

If a no deal was an absolute none starter they shouldn't have voted for article 50.

They wasted over 3 years and are now crapping themselves over a few days

Did you read that article I posted listing all the Tory leadership candidates who said a prorogation of Parliament to get a deal through was unthinkable??

[geosname]

3 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

That is exactly the point.  The majority in Parliament do not think that a NO DEAL is the best way to exit the EU.  This is because, as you say, they are better informed.

 

Surely Jean they knew the consequences of no deal before the referendum... if not they must have known before they voted for article 50..... they are supposed to be better informed..... they must have considered all the options, especially not knowing what deal if any could be agreed and the consequences of not agreeing a deal must have also been seriously considered.

[Regal Beagle]

6 minutes ago, geosname said:

The 5 weeks covers a huge chunk of the conference season when parliament does even less than usual.

Suspending parliament isn't uncommon, the fact that this session is the longest in 400 years should tell you that.

The simple fact is that politicians who have spent over 3 years contemplating their naval still don't know what to do.

If a no deal was an absolute none starter they shouldn't have voted for article 50.

They wasted over 3 years and are now crapping themselves over a few days

 

It's just occurred to me that obviously that the prorogation is long overdue. It could therefore be argued that it isn't actually costing Parliament ANY days because they have had 4-5 days in the current session already that they otherwise wouldn't have had!

If that is accepted then it can only be the timing of the prorogation that is supposedly undemocratic, and my understanding (although I don't know for sure) is that they are commonly held when a new cabinet is formed so they're still clutching at straws a bit.

 

So yeah, in conclusion, nothing to worry about and the prorogue isn't actually costing any time at all in net terms.

[geosname]

2 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Did you read that article I posted listing all the Tory leadership candidates who said a prorogation of Parliament to get a deal through was unthinkable??

If you read my posts you will understand I don't believe what any politician says..... especially those trying to get votes.

They all lie, no matter what colour flag they fly....... it's no longer about doing the right thing..... it's all about winning

[Regal Beagle]

10 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Did you read that article I posted listing all the Tory leadership candidates who said a prorogation of Parliament to get a deal through was unthinkable??

It's a good job that this prorogation of parliament is not to get a deal through then isn't it?

It would be well awkward for them otherwise.

[geosname]

5 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

It's just occurred to me that obviously that the prorogation is long overdue. It could therefore be argued that it isn't actually costing Parliament ANY days because they have had 4-5 days in the current session already that they otherwise wouldn't have had!

If that is accepted then it can only be the timing of the prorogation that is supposedly undemocratic, and my understanding (although I don't know for sure) is that they are commonly held when a new cabinet is formed so they're still clutching at straws a bit.

 

So yeah, in conclusion, nothing to worry about and the prorogue isn't actually costing any time at all in net terms.

I think it's normally done to announce what a new government wants to do.

That doesn't mean Boris isn't trying to pull the wool..... I suspect he will be laying out his agenda for an election.... a huge swing away from brexit, concentrating on the voters.

[Regal Beagle]

12 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Couldn't agree more.  There are a couple of posters on here who would support a no deal Brexit even if you said it would mean they would have to have their right arm amputated.  Neither of them said anything about no deal in the immediate post-referendum discussions, however.

I didn't like the result.  I accept it's going to happen but frankly, I'd rather have the prospect of a deal that will make life difficult rather than a no deal which will make life bloody impossible.

 

Is that the next project fear lie? That brexit means you have to have your arm amputated? It wouldn't surprise me.

Am I one of the "couple" of posters by the way?

[Jacko51]

Johnson was elected leader of the Tories and PM ob 23 July.  That was five weeks.  He now needs another five weeks.  That's 10 weeks to write a speech.  Is he a slow learner or summat??

[Regal Beagle]

3 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Johnson was elected leader of the Tories and PM ob 23 July.  That was five weeks.  He now needs another five weeks.  That's 10 weeks to write a speech.  Is he a slow learner or summat??

He has been busy trying to implement the democratic will of the people to be fair. Doing a bloody sterling job as well so far.

Also, was he ELECTED leader? I thought it was some sort of military coup d'etat going off some of the comments on here.

[geosname]

Leaving or remaining won't fix the problems with democracy...... it won't heal the divide..... it won't help the political system regain what has been destroyed

[Jacko51]

1 minute ago, geosname said:

Leaving nor remaining won't fix the problems with democracy...... it won't heal the divide..... it won't help the political system regain what has been destroyed

Agreed.  Because the word compromise has been eliminated from political language.