Brexit again...

[Thevalefan]

Coates reference was a jibe at these people's ridiculously posh accents!

[mbycars]

I've travelled all over the world and met some fantastic people wherever I have been. I heard a quote the other day which mainly rings true " People are generally really good its just governments that are evil".

[Howjy04]

Coates reference was a jibe at these people's ridiculously posh accents!

 

Well spoken do you mean?

[Howjy04]

He's still a strong remainer and when he was on Question Time spoke a lot of sense.

 

Well prepared for Brexit though.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Well prepared for Brexit though.

Better prepared than a lot who voted leave, many of whom I suspect are very ill-prepared.

[Regal Beagle]

I just can't accept when people talk total b*****ks on the subject and regurgitat blatant lies. If no one challenges those views, imagine what the place would be like!

 

There's challenging views and there's talking total ******** and regurgitating blatant lies.

 

Sovereignty for example. You've been fishing for a while with that one, calling it a myth or a lie despite the very simple fact being that we do not have complete sovereignty over our Laws and policies. You can argue the extent of the lack of sovereignty, but to claim that we have it, is a complete and utter lie. No getting round that.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

There's challenging views and there's talking total ******** and regurgitating blatant lies.

 

Sovereignty for example. You've been fishing for a while with that one, calling it a myth or a lie despite the very simple fact being that we do not have complete sovereignty over our Laws and policies. You can argue the extent of the lack of sovereignty, but to claim that we have it, is a complete and utter lie. No getting round that.

I can see your point but personally I've never had an issue with the supremacy of EU courts as we have contributed to the law making and the courts themselves. Also, as with any member state, we have never given up actual sovereignty which was demonstrated by us holding a referendum and triggering Article 50. If we were not a sovereign state we couldn't have done that by doing so would have effectively been in the same position as the US confederate states were when they cesseeded from the union as they were bound by a federal constitution and were not sovereign, thus inviting civil war as the Union did not accept rebellion against the sovereign federal state.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Another point about the sovereignty issue is we have not been adversely affected by the supremacy of EU courts in 45 years of membership so promoting it as a problem by the leave side is a falsehood.

[geosname]

Another point about the sovereignty issue is we have not been adversely affected by the supremacy of EU courts in 45 years of membership so promoting it as a problem by the leave side is a falsehood.

 

We're there not people we couldn't deport because of EU court rulings..... it's a question

[Thevalefan]

There's challenging views and there's talking total ******** and regurgitating blatant lies.

 

Sovereignty for example. You've been fishing for a while with that one, calling it a myth or a lie despite the very simple fact being that we do not have complete sovereignty over our Laws and policies.

 

You can argue the extent of the lack of sovereignty, but to claim that we have it, is a complete and utter lie. No getting round that.

 

Name me one law the EU has forced on the UK to that affects any aspect of your or any normal person’s life? Tell me what laws you want us to make, that we would not be able too?

Most of the laws are trading laws such as fishery policies, agricultural, environmental etc which in fairness are going to happen when you join up to something like the EU.

 

Geo, yes that’s right. We’ve had hundreds of attempted deportations blocked by the EU and is something which is part of why I think it needs a reform. Equally, as we don’t have ID cards etc we make it very easy for people to be here. We don’t enforce any immigration powers we have.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

We're there not people we couldn't deport because of EU court rulings..... it's a question

 

I think that was down to rulings regarding human rights which I don't believe is controlled by the EU it's a separate international thing. I could be mistaken though. Either way it's not a very good reason to vote to leave the EU, there's only been a handful of cases.

[geosname]

I think that was down to rulings regarding human rights which I don't believe is controlled by the EU it's a separate international thing. I could be mistaken though. Either way it's not a very good reason to vote to leave the EU, there's only been a handful of cases.

 

The European court of human rights isn't controlled by Europe?

I asked the question in response to a statement about sovereignty.... which suggests that if a European court can overrule another it has sovereignty ....

Turn it around..... is the ability to overrule the UK courts a reason to stay?

The major problem with the EU, in my opinion, is that it is trying to be something it isn't, it isn't a single country with numerous states, it isn't a single state with numerous countries. It should be a number of individual countries working together.

[Jacko51]

There was a very interesting opinion piece in the Times yesterday by Clare Foges. It was headed "Big lie of the ‘anti establishment’ Brexit vote" and argued that the suggestion that much of the Leave voted was targetted at the "elites" and "establishment" who were seen to be out of touch with the common man.

 

She goes on to argue that those regions and groups who voted most heavily for Brexit will be those who will suffer most from its consequences. She uses the Nissan plant in Sunderland as an example of this.

 

The most telling part of the article for me though was as follows:

 

"The moneyed establishment — the rich and super-rich — may be touched by Brexit, but wealth will insulate them against real pain. As the billionaire Peter Hargreaves, who reportedly gave millions to the Leave campaign, puts it: “You say my wealth is $4.6 billion? If it wiped $4 billion off and left me $600 million it would not change my lifestyle one iota.” Indeed, according to a survey last year by UBS, most UK millionaires believe Brexit will make them even richer. If not they can always escape, like the Brexiteer and Britain’s richest man Sir Jim Ratcliffe, who recently left the promised land of Brexit for the sunnier climes of Monaco."

 

Very sad.

[Heatwave]

My main concern about the way things are shaping up is that the whole country could be held to ransom by a knot of unrepresentative MPs from the DUP that Teresa May needs to keep her government in office.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

My main concern about the way things are shaping up is that the whole country could be held to ransom by a knot of unrepresentative MPs from the DUP that Teresa May needs to keep her government in office.

Good point. The unionists have always been a disproportionate problem, the only word they ever use is 'No'. Or occasionally 'Ye'. Maybe Kan-Ye West should join them, he's a big enough clown but they'd find his ethnicity something of a blocker.