Brexit again...

[geosname]

No, it's madness disguised under a shroud of democracy. Not all leave voters are mad enough to cut their nose off to spite their face, add them to remain supporters and where does the democracy of a no deal lie then?

As has been pointed out many times in this thread no one voted for a brutal no deal Brexit, it was a simple leave or stay, utterly stupid considering the complexity of the issue.

It's democracy.... the madness is trying to bend the reality of the situation with arguments saying it should be ignored.

There were no votes cast for hard/soft brexit... just brexit.... politicians may argue about how and consequences but the people voted out so out we should go.

The stupidity of it all is that nobody revealed what brexit actually is.... they talked endlessly about what we could and couldn't do when out or in.

[For Us All]

Looking more and more likely to be a no deal scenario. Do you think like Trump May will be able to negotiate a zero tariff scenario all be it on a short term basis?

 

No she won't.Trump wasn't leaving the EU and didn't need to be punished like us.

[Heatwave]

I cant remember how the people of Wolverhampton coped with being transferred from Staffordshire to the West Midlands, have they ever asked to come back? Off topic I know, but Brexit is depressing.

 

Just don't call them Black Country. They don't like it.

[Heatwave]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-44966969

 

The injustice here is for the UK population. That these kind of messages were allowed to be used for a political campaign. They are complete lies, the fact they stand up as acceptable political campaigning in the UK highlights how uninformed we have become collectively as a nation. The Remain side did nothing to pull these up and as a result deservedly lost the referendum, a sensationalised lie will beat the modest truth most times in democracy. Anyone with half an ounce of intelligence could have ripped that Leave campaign to shreds and I do still wonder why no one did. It's only after the vote that the reasoning behind Remain has really come forward and I'm sure many Leave voters here would agree that there has been very little positives or tangible benefits that have been highlighted from the Brexit politicians or papers since winning the referendum.

 

If we had planned properly, fair enough and I'd accept any outcome as I knew what was going on properly. But we didn't. Even if it was based on % of voters, for example if it was 60% Leave then a hard Brexit could be employed. 50% Leave then Medium (if that is possible). 40% Leave then soft Brexit. As an example. At least we would have a better idea of how things got to the situation they are in now.

 

If 50% then wouldn't it have required another vote; 40% then Remain wins?

 

None of this would have happened if the government had required a two thirds majority for Leave. We're left with the consequences.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-44966969

 

The injustice here is for the UK population. That these kind of messages were allowed to be used for a political campaign. They are complete lies, the fact they stand up as acceptable political campaigning in the UK highlights how uninformed we have become collectively as a nation. The Remain side did nothing to pull these up and as a result deservedly lost the referendum, a sensationalised lie will beat the modest truth most times in democracy. Anyone with half an ounce of intelligence could have ripped that Leave campaign to shreds and I do still wonder why no one did. It's only after the vote that the reasoning behind Remain has really come forward and I'm sure many Leave voters here would agree that there has been very little positives or tangible benefits that have been highlighted from the Brexit politicians or papers since winning the referendum.

 

If we had planned properly, fair enough and I'd accept any outcome as I knew what was going on properly. But we didn't. Even if it was based on % of voters, for example if it was 60% Leave then a hard Brexit could be employed. 50% Leave then Medium (if that is possible). 40% Leave then soft Brexit. As an example. At least we would have a better idea of how things got to the situation they are in now.

That's very true and as a staunch Europhile (not just EU but European life and culture in general) I was disgusted at the lukewarm campaign to remain. I have even wondered if key people in the remain campaign weren't that bothered about the result being a decision to leave, Corbyn was one of those for certain and I suspect Cameron was too although he was such an incompetent and so conceited he may well have just genuinely thought Remain would walk it.

We all have a tendency to believe what we want to believe but it should be illegal to make political claims in campaigning that are simply blatant lies, like the £350m a week for the NHS or the EU stifling UK innovation or many of the other lies in those Leave adverts.

The campaign to remain should have heavily promoted the vast array of advantages of being in the EU alongside the positives we have enjoyed for 45 years, as well as pointing out the pitfalls of leaving and highlighting the misleading and untruthful claims of the Leave campaign.

As a nation we are going to pay a heavy price for exiting the EU, especially if we leave with a bad deal or no deal. People have forgotten what Britain was like in 1973 and one of the things that amazed me was how many older people voted leave having experienced the state of the country and its standard of living prior to EU membership and also having enjoyed the huge improvement in standard of living (for most of them) during the past 45 years.

[Jacko51]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44853389/tory-mp-anna-soubry-attacks-wealthy-brexiteers

[For Us All]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44853389/tory-mp-anna-soubry-attacks-wealthy-brexiteers

 

More sour grapes from another guardian of the status quo.She needs to concentrate more on satisfying her Leave constituents in Broxtowe rather than sucking up to Junker.

[For Us All]

Does anyone really think a country of 60 odd million people is going to negotiate the same or better trade deals with the USA, China, India, Brazil etc than being part of a block of 450 odd million people.

 

The project fear is starting to become project reality. During the last 18 months the world economy has grown at an unprecedented rate yet out of the G7 countries the growth of the UK economy has fallen from first to last, the value of the pound against the dollar remains stubbornly low post Brexit and the uncertainty about possible interest rate rises continues.

 

By voting for Brexit the probability is the UK has has voted to make itself poorer.

 

On the other hand why do you think we can't do the same or better trade deals with the rest of the world rather than a block with just 450 odd million people?

[geosname]

[quote=SourceOfTheTrent;820747

We all have a tendency to believe what we want to believe but it should be illegal to make political claims in campaigning that are simply blatant lies, like the £350m a week for the NHS or the EU stifling UK innovation or many of the other lies in those Leave adverts.

.

 

If that was the case every politician would be arrested.... not such a bad thing in my opinion... election promises rarely come to fruition

[SourceOfTheTrent]

On the other hand why do you think we can't do the same or better trade deals with the rest of the world rather than a block with just 450 odd million people?

If you have the buying power of 400m as opposed to 60m you are much better positioned to get a good deal. The market is 6-7 times the size so volume, thus profit potential, is much greater. Also, 400m people will produce a broader range of usually more competitively priced exports through greater economies of scale and much greater R&D spend. The USA is a great example of this, look how their industries grew in their vast home market to be virtually instantly dominant when they expanded overseas.

Hopefully we will get good trade deals but what will we be exporting that will entice other trading areas to give us favourable tariffs? Of course everyone will be happy to export to us tariff free but it's the trade the other way that will be the issue and a consumer market of 60m has much less sway than one of 400m.

[Regal Beagle]

Don't expect an answer from the Brexit voting lot there do you? They won't answer that. As they can't. They might just reply "loads of countries want to deal with GREAT BRITAIN" but won't explain why.

 

The very fact Regal Beagle made the post that a no deal would be justice explains the kinds of people they are; deluded, uninformed and extremely selfish. UK is going down the pan even more than it has while blokes like RB et al on here are spun a load of lies.

 

I am so happy I am not as thick to make a statement such as a No Deal will be justice.

 

What lies have I been spun?

 

You are talking rubbish yet again.

[Regal Beagle]

Does anyone really think a country of 60 odd million people is going to negotiate the same or better trade deals with the USA, China, India, Brazil etc than being part of a block of 450 odd million people.

 

Yes I do.

 

If you want to scaremonger you can say "a block of 450 odd million people"

 

In reality, they aren't a block, they are a collection of nations with different aims, different goods, different trades and if they don't fit in with industries that the EU want to protect then bad luck.

 

If it was a country of 450m people v a county of 65m people then I'd agree with you. But it isn't.

 

We can be a hell of a lot more efficient, a hell of a lot more flexible and we don't have to worry about price fixing produce from markets across the other side of the continent.

 

Why is euroscepticism rising in almost every single EU nation? You can't blame the daily mail or the evil made up figures on the side of 1 bus for that.

 

It's because it isn't working and people are starting to see it now.

 

On the other hand, the only excuse anyone has for us not being able to agree competitive trade deals is "the EU is bigger" - Means nothing. The EU is rubbish.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

What lies have I been spun?

 

You are talking rubbish yet again.

£350m a week for the NHS?

Immigration will be controlled?

We can now trade with the 'rest of the world' as though we've been prevented from doing so as EU members?

EU laws are imposed on us as though we had no input into forming them?

The EU is undemocratic and ruled by unelected politicians?

There's a few big fat Leave campaign porkies for starters.

[Regal Beagle]

There are members of the Conservative party who are intent on delivering Brexit at any cost that they give no consideration to the implications for their constituents or the UK. They will risk a Corbyn government and if that happens the proposed reduction in the rate of immigration into the UK will not happen.

 

Well I trust that the remain vote can't go to Corbyn as they seem absolutely obsessed with the economy above all else.

[Fosse69]

Well I trust that the remain vote can't go to Corbyn as they seem absolutely obsessed with the economy above all else.

At least we wants the building of the new navy ships to remain in the UK and not go to Japan, would surely help our economy.