Brexit again...

[Regal Beagle]

Brexit is a great example of why democracy and especially the way it is often administered is an imperfect system. Just because a majority vote in a certain way doesn't make them right.

Unfortunately democracy is the most equitable system we have devised and as such we are destined to live with the consequences of its imperfections.

As I said, people on your side of the debate won't get what you think you voted for, unless of course you all just want out and to hell with the consequences whatever they are which is a very, very dangerous position.

 

Yeah yeah you keep spouting garbage one liners like that. Problem is we heard it all before the referendum and without a shred of evidence but for some figures plucked from the air, we don't buy it.

 

Your problem is you see the referendum as right or wrong. It was Leave or Remain, personal choice. There is no 'wrong' vote. That's why democracy is the best system.

 

I'm not surprised you are not a big fan of democracy though given your posts.

[Regal Beagle]

Exactly, and some of the 'promises' made to attract the leave vote were nothing short of scandalous, e.g., the £350m per week, control of immigration and a wonderful world of bountiful free trade with non-EU countries.

 

Plenty of project fear lies too.

 

But we can't control immigration in the EU, we can outside, so not sure how that is so scandalous.

 

Not sure how free trade is scandalous.

 

The £350m a week was sales puff. I don't write or sign contracts on the side of buses. We still will make a massive saving outside of the EU and in 5-10 years when we have got the ball rolling on our own, we will be far better off.

[Thevalefan]

You are so clueless. Sorry, but you are.

 

Explain how we don't control immigration, rather than just saying we don't. THAT is the UK Governments fault for being so soft, the EU doesn't force us to give hand outs to everyone making them want to come here, or allow mass squats for them to be able to afford to live here.. Did the EU make Blair end passport exit checks?? Do we have so many illegals because of the EU or because we can't patrol our borders adequately?

 

5-10 years? You must be smoking some strong stuff. Treasury, who have set aside £3bn JUST for the talking, meetings, negotiating and studies on Brexit have warned we could be paying the divorce settlement until the 2060's!! Your just highlighting each post at a time you have no understanding of the magnitude of this whole thing. It took the EU 5 years to negotiate trade with Japan!

How will we replace the benefit of being within the worlds most valuable market that enabled £513bn of trade in exports and imports (2016)? Who will replicate or beat that?

 

....5-10 years, for God's sake, you've had 2 years to get up to speed on Brexit and you are spouting drivel like that.. God help us, we're f**ked!

[bookworm]

Of course the minority are always right how silly of me to think otherwise.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Of course the minority are always right how silly of me to think otherwise.

Not always, maybe not often, but sometimes, even you!

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Yeah yeah you keep spouting garbage one liners like that. Problem is we heard it all before the referendum and without a shred of evidence but for some figures plucked from the air, we don't buy it.

 

Your problem is you see the referendum as right or wrong. It was Leave or Remain, personal choice. There is no 'wrong' vote. That's why democracy is the best system.

 

I'm not surprised you are not a big fan of democracy though given your posts.

You either didn't read my post properly or you lack the intelligence to understand it, or, I suspect, both.

Do your shoes have Velco fastenings?

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Plenty of project fear lies too.

 

But we can't control immigration in the EU, we can outside, so not sure how that is so scandalous.

 

Not sure how free trade is scandalous.

 

The £350m a week was sales puff. I don't write or sign contracts on the side of buses. We still will make a massive saving outside of the EU and in 5-10 years when we have got the ball rolling on our own, we will be far better off.

Actually no one needs to question if you have a lack of understanding because you amply demonstrate it with posts like that.

[geosname]

Let's not go down this road again please... debate by all means but let's cut the insults out

[Aussie Rules]

I wonder what Tony Blair thinks of his 'Cool Britannia' now.

 

I was just back in town from a country posting and still being active at the grass roots level of politics I was pleased to read he had been appointed leader of the Labour Party (21/07/1994).

 

It was his several references to being pro EU that started my interest to read further the pros and cons of such membership.

[geosname]

I wonder what Tony Blair thinks of his 'Cool Britannia' now.

 

I was just back in town from a country posting and still being active at the grass roots level of politics I was pleased to read he had been appointed leader of the Labour Party (21/07/1994).

 

It was his several references to being pro EU that started my interest to read further the pros and cons of such membership.

Tony Blair and thinks in the same sentence.... you did well there Barry

[SourceOfTheTrent]

I wonder what Tony Blair thinks of his 'Cool Britannia' now.

 

I was just back in town from a country posting and still being active at the grass roots level of politics I was pleased to read he had been appointed leader of the Labour Party (21/07/1994).

 

It was his several references to being pro EU that started my interest to read further the pros and cons of such membership.

I don't think Blair was anywhere near as bad a PM as some people now like to make out, the Iraq war debacle was his legacy downfall and has been utilised to discredit the Labour Party and deflect any recognition of the positives such as a long term pro-business growing economy, rebuilding of schools and hospitals that were utterly derelict in 1997, social aid policies to assist employment such as child care assistance and Working Tax Credits, plus many other plusses.

Blair was a real middle of the road politician and saw the huge benefits of the EU in economic terms. As any society relies on a strong economy to fund public investment and social welfare his government put strong emphasis on that area.

Like all other PM's he was far from perfect and is open to criticism but taking an objective view he presided over a successful period for the UK.

There will now be a tirade of inaccurate drivel about him and his government from the extreme right wingers on here (and possibly the left?) which will probably say they caused the global financial crash of 2008, buried us in public debt, handed out swathes of public money to single mothers and immigrants, did what the EU told them, etc.,etc. but the reality is what it is.

One small example; in 1997 Euston Gardens outside the station in London was smothered in rough sleeping homeless people, as were many streets across Britain's cities. By 1999 that had virtually disappeared. Last year Euston Gardens was back to 1997, what a sight for people arriving in our capital! Homelessness is again a massive problem nd rising. Welcome to Tory Britain.

This is why the right of the Tory Party want us out of the EU, it's nothing to do with improving our economy, they know that will suffer badly especially in the short to medium term, they want to avoid all EU laws on social welfare including employment rights and subsistence provision. They openly advocate a return to 19th / early 20th century free market, deregulated economics, the very thing that caused vast poverty and the crashes of 1929 and 2008. This is what they mean by 'taking back control', so, unless you are one of their small group of financially powerful elite, say the wealthiest 5% of society, you should be very afraid of these people getting their way. Ask anyone who experienced life in Britain before the war (admittedly difficult for many young people).

[bookworm]

I don't think Blair was anywhere near as bad a PM as some people now like to make out, the Iraq war debacle was his legacy downfall and has been utilised to discredit the Labour Party and deflect any recognition of the positives such as a long term pro-business growing economy, rebuilding of schools and hospitals that were utterly derelict in 1997, social aid policies to assist employment such as child care assistance and Working Tax Credits, plus many other plusses.

Blair was a real middle of the road politician and saw the huge benefits of the EU in economic terms. As any society relies on a strong economy to fund public investment and social welfare his government put strong emphasis on that area.

Like all other PM's he was far from perfect and is open to criticism but taking an objective view he presided over a successful period for the UK.

There will now be a tirade of inaccurate drivel about him and his government from the extreme right wingers on here (and possibly the left?) which will probably say they caused the global financial crash of 2008, buried us in public debt, handed out swathes of public money to single mothers and immigrants, did what the EU told them, etc.,etc. but the reality is what it is.

One small example; in 1997 Euston Gardens outside the station in London was smothered in rough sleeping homeless people, as were many streets across Britain's cities. By 1999 that had virtually disappeared. Last year Euston Gardens was back to 1997, what a sight for people arriving in our capital! Homelessness is again a massive problem nd rising. Welcome to Tory Britain.

This is why the right of the Tory Party want us out of the EU, it's nothing to do with improving our economy, they know that will suffer badly especially in the short to medium term, they want to avoid all EU laws on social welfare including employment rights and subsistence provision. They openly advocate a return to 19th / early 20th century free market, deregulated economics, the very thing that caused vast poverty and the crashes of 1929 and 2008. This is what they mean by 'taking back control', so, unless you are one of their small group of financially powerful elite, say the wealthiest 5% of society, you should be very afraid of these people getting their way. Ask anyone who experienced life in Britain before the war (admittedly difficult for many young people).

 

That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the labour party. now for a summary of the news on the third programme.after which we have a repeat of animal farm.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the labour party. now for a summary of the news on the third programme.after which we have a repeat of animal farm.

 

You've obviously never read Animal Farm, more of a Mein Kampf man are you?

[bookworm]

You've obviously never read Animal Farm, more of a Mein Kampf man are you?

 

the play didn't do the book justice,in my honest opinion of course.

[geosname]

Blair wasn't any better or worse than many other PMs.... high on promise low on delivery.... high expectation at the beginning high on denial at the end.