Brexit again...

[For Us All]

28 minutes ago, geosname said:

Soaking in the bath with my big yellow duck an amusing similarity struck me....... is Boris captain Ahab tied to the white whale (brexit) waving to the good men of the pequod to follow...... oh Moby Duck where do you go when the water drains.

Notting Hill perhaps?

[For Us All]

I agree with the Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby,who said last weekend at a citizens forum.

"We have to take seriously the fact that the majority voted Leave.We may not like it,but that is democracy and that means we have to stop whingeing about it and do something about reuniting the country".

Spoken like a true democrat.

Was is on Channel 4 News,I never saw anything on the BBC or Sky News?

[Jacko51]

I think one of the problems here is that both sides are misinterpretting what the other side wants.  The Remainers seem convinced that the other side want no deal yet Boris has said he wants a deal.  The Brexiteers seem determined that the Remainers in Parliament want to stop Brexit when the majority of them want to stop a no deal Brexit. 

So it seems both sides want a deal.  Why the **** did they vote against one??

[Fosse69]

3 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

I think one of the problems here is that both sides are misinterpretting what the other side wants.  The Remainers seem convinced that the other side want no deal yet Boris has said he wants a deal.  The Brexiteers seem determined that the Remainers in Parliament want to stop Brexit when the majority of them want to stop a no deal Brexit. 

So it seems both sides want a deal.  Why the **** did they vote against one??

Some were  convinced that a better deal was available, but could not decide which better deal was better, some think that there is no deal better than the deal we already have.. Some think that NO Deal is the best deal, but do not define what a bad deal is worse than, but a NO Deal does not define the deal we will have to make in the future.

[Jacko51]

Just now, Fosse69 said:

Some were  convinced that a better deal was available, but could not decide which better deal was better, some think that there is no deal better than the deal we already have.. Some think that NO Deal is the best deal, but do not define what a bad deal is worse than, but a NO Deal does not define the deal we will have to make in the future.

That's cleared the matter up, Fosse!

[Fosse69]

37 minutes ago, For Us All said:

I agree with the Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby,who said last weekend at a citizens forum.

"We have to take seriously the fact that the majority voted Leave.We may not like it,but that is democracy and that means we have to stop whingeing about it and do something about reuniting the country".

Spoken like a true democrat.

Was is on Channel 4 News,I never saw anything on the BBC or Sky News?

Since when was the House of Lords democratic?

[Fosse69]

2 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

That's cleared the matter up, Fosse!

No problem, they pay politicians good money for gobblygook also.

[geosname]

41 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

I think one of the problems here is that both sides are misinterpretting what the other side wants.  The Remainers seem convinced that the other side want no deal yet Boris has said he wants a deal.  The Brexiteers seem determined that the Remainers in Parliament want to stop Brexit when the majority of them want to stop a no deal Brexit. 

So it seems both sides want a deal.  Why the **** did they vote against one??

Possibly because may didn't state a no deal was possible and returned with a crap deal which saw us locked into the EU for eternity but with less benefits

[Regal Beagle]

42 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

I think one of the problems here is that both sides are misinterpretting what the other side wants.  The Remainers seem convinced that the other side want no deal yet Boris has said he wants a deal.  The Brexiteers seem determined that the Remainers in Parliament want to stop Brexit when the majority of them want to stop a no deal Brexit. 

So it seems both sides want a deal.  Why the **** did they vote against one??

Because remainers are simultaneously trying to weaken our negotiating position by blocking no deal and arguing for a second referendum.

Do they want to block no deal because they want a deal? Or do they want to stop no deal because they know that the EU will never give us a deal worth taking and therefore makes a second referendum or simply ignoring the first much more viable?

Jo Swinson has already stated that she would ignore the result of the second referendum if leave won again.

I have absolutely no trust at all in Parliament's remainers that they do actually want to implement the referendum result. Literally every turn has seen their actions betray that thought process, except for them voting for Article 50 which they're deperate to repeal.

 

[Jacko51]

6 minutes ago, geosname said:

Possibly because may didn't state a no deal was possible and returned with a crap deal which saw us locked into the EU for eternity but with less benefits

Surely when we leave we will be seeking a trade deal and that will see us locked into the EU regulatory trading framework any way??

[geosname]

2 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Surely when we leave we will be seeking a trade deal and that will see us locked into the EU regulatory trading framework any way??

Not necessarily Jean..... we can trade with anyone who wants to deal..... including the EU if they agree to terms

[TheSage]

At the end of the day we'll have to negotiate with the EU, sooner, later, sometime, maybe.. so it makes sense to try and sort out a sensible deal for everyone involved. If we pursue a No Deal then it will make future negotiations very tetchy and we'll pay a heavy price. Yes, the EU will be worse off as well, so too Ireland, but it doesn't make it any better. As someone said the other day, it's like being in a crash - but we're in a car and the EU is a train. There will be casualties on both sides but we'll suffer a great deal more and sour any future negotiations. I'm also worried about NI and the impact this might have on damaging the future of the UK. Remember also that we're the ones leaving. You don't have much of a leg to stand on if you try and cherry pick what you want. You leave the Club, you lose the benefits. Presently it's the EU who have the moral high ground in Ireland because they are in support of the Good Friday agreement. Leaving with No Deal will destroy all that and I doubt our friends in the US will be pleased.

 

 

 

[TheSage]

I understand the frustration of those who think they joined a football club and it's now playing hockey, or whatever the analogy was. I can see that. We joined a commercial trading market and it's grown into much more than that. I get that. I agree with you.

The difficulty is, we've been playing hockey now for 20-30 years and are inextricably linked to the hockey club in a way that is very difficult to untwine ourselves from without causing severe damage.

And then if we do leave and branch out on our own we'll have to learn another game to play, baseball, and that just exacerbates the problem.

I just can't see how leaving will be of benefit to us. Most countries in the world play hockey.

(With thanks to Eric Cantona)

[Fosse69]

21 minutes ago, TheSage said:

I understand the frustration of those who think they joined a football club and it's now playing hockey, or whatever the analogy was. I can see that. We joined a commercial trading market and it's grown into much more than that. I get that. I agree with you.

The difficulty is, we've been playing hockey now for 20-30 years and are inextricably linked to the hockey club in a way that is very difficult to untwine ourselves from without causing severe damage.

And then if we do leave and branch out on our own we'll have to learn another game to play, baseball, and that just exacerbates the problem.

I just can't see how leaving will be of benefit to us. Most countries in the world play hockey.

(With thanks to Eric Cantona)

But we will no longer have a say in how hockey rules change, and since we don't play baseball we will not be involved.

[ginge]

Shutting down parliament just floors the Brexit argument about returning sovereignty and democracy. That wasn't on the table during the referendum. It's idiotic to think it's acceptable to destroy years of parliamentary democracy... and it will not be allowed.