dwindling crowds/atmosphere

[Mattholl]

One problem at Vale fans need to overcome is the thought process that young lads are all hooligans and cause trouble. 'Ladish' behaviour is jumped on and shunned by a huge section of the Vale fan base where as other clubs have embraced it and used it as a tool. At stadiums where there is a great atmosphere most of this is created by noisy younger people. Lets be honest Derek in his 70s isnt jumping about, singing and clapping, the atmosphere on the whole comes from young men in groups who have had the odd beer.

 

Having been to Old Trafford a couple of times this year and St James a couple of times too the main stay of these clubs is the all day or 'day out' culture which has slowly been eroded and looked down on by Vale fans who are as people have mentioned a aging breed. I've been called a lout before by an older woman for laughing at a friend who has slipped and fallen down the grass bank in the paddock. The same on away trips the fact that a lot of younger fans travel to away games and have a few beers should be embraced and harnessed by the club, not shunned as this only promotes the hooligan element of people who feel they should be travelling with the undesirables as older fans look at them like garbage for having a can of beer on the train. The Bury thread summed up for me what was a single incident of totally unacceptable behaviour, blown into a total assault on anyone going to games and making a peep or having a beer. Most modern stadiums now have their packages to buy a beer, pie and a crisps/choc bar for about £7 or include it with a match ticket for £30 and want people drinking and spending money in the ground. Where as Vale have allowed away fans into the Vale pub and dont even have enough beers or pies to make it to half time. At Stoker you have the bar culture of deliahs bar where fans who have memberships or season tickets can go in before the game and have their own little area to go to, why dont Vale use the corp hospitality area which is always empty on the back corner of lorne street by the bycars as a members bar before the game? Bar opens at 12pm, its a perk to include with the season tickets and sells more beer and food prior to games. If you get younger people involved in this too by allowing fans to pay to get into the bar too then it starts to promote the day out at the vale spending 3-4 hours at the stadium, rather than the nip up the vale or its a bit cold so ill stay homers. 3-4 hours becomes a routine and a fixture in the calendar every other weekend. This is what the bigger clubs do a lot these days most lads i know who go to stoke go into a bar or a lounge before the game and prefer it to rushing up there for kick off.

[melv]

There wasn't pre 1987 in fact the stadium was in a far worse position then than it is now!! all i,m saying is its all down to the luck of the draw and a few good results on the pitch that can turn things around you can.t build a fanbase by just talking about it on a website or reducing ticket prices it has to come from the pitch and the performances on it!!

 

Every team wants to win and build successful teams if it was that easy you would be very rich

 

All these things have to click into place, the right Owner,the right Manager, the right players and a lucky draw for it all fall into place these things have worked for a few clubs recently the likes of Burnley,Bournemouth,Brighton,Blackpool,Stoke to some extent why not Port Vale!!!

 

It's all down down to the luck of the draw?

 

So it's nothing to do crap,boring football,players that can't pass the ball to each other.Nothing to do with crap marketing.

 

There you go folks,problem solved.The lack of fans is nothing more than the luck of the draw

[geosname]

One problem at Vale fans need to overcome is the thought process that young lads are all hooligans and cause trouble. 'Ladish' behaviour is jumped on and shunned by a huge section of the Vale fan base where as other clubs have embraced it and used it as a tool. At stadiums where there is a great atmosphere most of this is created by noisy younger people. Lets be honest Derek in his 70s isnt jumping about, singing and clapping, the atmosphere on the whole comes from young men in groups who have had the odd beer.

 

Having been to Old Trafford a couple of times this year and St James a couple of times too the main stay of these clubs is the all day or 'day out' culture which has slowly been eroded and looked down on by Vale fans who are as people have mentioned a aging breed. I've been called a lout before by an older woman for laughing at a friend who has slipped and fallen down the grass bank in the paddock. The same on away trips the fact that a lot of younger fans travel to away games and have a few beers should be embraced and harnessed by the club, not shunned as this only promotes the hooligan element of people who feel they should be travelling with the undesirables as older fans look at them like garbage for having a can of beer on the train. The Bury thread summed up for me what was a single incident of totally unacceptable behaviour, blown into a total assault on anyone going to games and making a peep or having a beer. Most modern stadiums now have their packages to buy a beer, pie and a crisps/choc bar for about £7 or include it with a match ticket for £30 and want people drinking and spending money in the ground. Where as Vale have allowed away fans into the Vale pub and dont even have enough beers or pies to make it to half time. At Stoker you have the bar culture of deliahs bar where fans who have memberships or season tickets can go in before the game and have their own little area to go to, why dont Vale use the corp hospitality area which is always empty on the back corner of lorne street by the bycars as a members bar before the game? Bar opens at 12pm, its a perk to include with the season tickets and sells more beer and food prior to games. If you get younger people involved in this too by allowing fans to pay to get into the bar too then it starts to promote the day out at the vale spending 3-4 hours at the stadium, rather than the nip up the vale or its a bit cold so ill stay homers. 3-4 hours becomes a routine and a fixture in the calendar every other weekend. This is what the bigger clubs do a lot these days most lads i know who go to stoke go into a bar or a lounge before the game and prefer it to rushing up there for kick off.

 

I agree with some of your post... but then derek in his 70s isnt likely to chant racist abuse [although there is nothing worse than an old bigot], hes not likely to flair up and attack other fans and I doubt he would go out of his way to organise a punch up in the middle of burslem.

We have to define what we mean by laddish behavior and also define what is acceptable behavior, compare them and chop out what isnt acceptable.

Some decent ideas in your post though

[stupers]

One problem at Vale fans need to overcome is the thought process that young lads are all hooligans and cause trouble. 'Ladish' behaviour is jumped on and shunned by a huge section of the Vale fan base where as other clubs have embraced it and used it as a tool. At stadiums where there is a great atmosphere most of this is created by noisy younger people. Lets be honest Derek in his 70s isnt jumping about, singing and clapping, the atmosphere on the whole comes from young men in groups who have had the odd beer.

 

Having been to Old Trafford a couple of times this year and St James a couple of times too the main stay of these clubs is the all day or 'day out' culture which has slowly been eroded and looked down on by Vale fans who are as people have mentioned a aging breed. I've been called a lout before by an older woman for laughing at a friend who has slipped and fallen down the grass bank in the paddock. The same on away trips the fact that a lot of younger fans travel to away games and have a few beers should be embraced and harnessed by the club, not shunned as this only promotes the hooligan element of people who feel they should be travelling with the undesirables as older fans look at them like garbage for having a can of beer on the train. The Bury thread summed up for me what was a single incident of totally unacceptable behaviour, blown into a total assault on anyone going to games and making a peep or having a beer. Most modern stadiums now have their packages to buy a beer, pie and a crisps/choc bar for about £7 or include it with a match ticket for £30 and want people drinking and spending money in the ground. Where as Vale have allowed away fans into the Vale pub and dont even have enough beers or pies to make it to half time. At Stoker you have the bar culture of deliahs bar where fans who have memberships or season tickets can go in before the game and have their own little area to go to, why dont Vale use the corp hospitality area which is always empty on the back corner of lorne street by the bycars as a members bar before the game? Bar opens at 12pm, its a perk to include with the season tickets and sells more beer and food prior to games. If you get younger people involved in this too by allowing fans to pay to get into the bar too then it starts to promote the day out at the vale spending 3-4 hours at the stadium, rather than the nip up the vale or its a bit cold so ill stay homers. 3-4 hours becomes a routine and a fixture in the calendar every other weekend. This is what the bigger clubs do a lot these days most lads i know who go to stoke go into a bar or a lounge before the game and prefer it to rushing up there for kick off.

 

I think within reason, 'laddish' behaviour is good for football and is good for Port Vale. Certainly I have more fun when there is more atmosphere in the home end or if we've been to an away game with a big following. I know certain people won't agree with that, but sanitising the stadiums as you say is not doing anything for football. We've gone too far in that respect. Anything illegal (homophobia, racism etc), get rid of it. After that then it's fair game isn't it? I'm still not sure why we've moved the away fans so far from the paddock. I think that's had a major impact on the atmosphere at home games. There's no interaction between the two sets of supporters.

[stupers]

There wasn't pre 1987 in fact the stadium was in a far worse position then than it is now!! all i,m saying is its all down to the luck of the draw and a few good results on the pitch that can turn things around you can.t build a fanbase by just talking about it on a website or reducing ticket prices it has to come from the pitch and the performances on it!!

 

Every team wants to win and build successful teams if it was that easy you would be very rich

 

All these things have to click into place, the right Owner,the right Manager, the right players and a lucky draw for it all fall into place these things have worked for a few clubs recently the likes of Burnley,Bournemouth,Brighton,Blackpool,Stoke to some extent why not Port Vale!!!

 

It's not 1987 anymore. There are more entertainment options than back then, which I'm sure we can all agree there wasn't a whole lot to keep people entertained.

 

I don't believe in being 'lucky'. You make your own luck in this life. We don't put ourselves in positions to be 'lucky'. Building a team is one part of it, but to build a fanbase you need to engage with your potential fanbase and find ways to make them want to come to the ground. Winning is just one part of that. I believe as well that we can be successful as a club. In it's current position though? Nah, we need to change a lot.

[smithie]

I'm still not sure why we've moved the away fans so far from the paddock. I think that's had a major impact on the atmosphere at home games. There's no interaction between the two sets of supporters.

 

Absolutely. Unfortunately this is seen at many grounds and it wouldn't surprise me if it's police-driven.

 

When I sing abuse at the away fans, I want them to hear me. Nowadays I have to do it by text.

[Family Stand Terrier]

Some of the responses to my last post are a clear example of the challenges that lie ahead. Pure ignorance and a huge lack of empathy for anyone with different circumstances. Not everyone can be the best fan in the world, like some of the people on here (by their own opinion) and attend simply because they "should", or risk being called a "so called fan" zzzzzzzz.

 

Yes, people like REP and Smithie are pretty amazing fans and we should all try our very hardest to be more like them. Unfortunately though, not everyone is that perfect. Some fans, sorry, "so called fans" make a choice every other week whether to pay for a product or not. Maybe we should listen to them? Not bow down to them, there's no way we can please everyone, but at least engage.

 

That's why this is the kind of thread the club should be monitoring. I've said it before, OVF can potentially be a source of good for the club, if used correctly and in partnership with, rather than viewing it as the enemy. Where else can the club engage with it's existing / potential customers 24/7. If used professionally, there could be some quick wins, and they could identify some recurring issues that may not cost the earth to address.

 

Or, we could just see where doing nothing gets us eh??? because lets face it, it worked back in the 60's

[Fosse69]

The only option for the Railway is as Norman pondered, a social/bar/food area in the car park area at the Hamil end, but would It be used n the week? Also the initial cost? How much pre-match trade would it have to drag way from Burslem, and create trade for people who don't bother to walk into town, or would come earlier if there were better facilities? How about a drive-in Nandos? Walk-in on match days.

[smithie]

Some of the responses to my last post are a clear example of the challenges that lie ahead. Pure ignorance and a huge lack of empathy for anyone with different circumstances. Not everyone can be the best fan in the world, like some of the people on here (by their own opinion) and attend simply because they "should", or risk being called a "so called fan" zzzzzzzz.

 

Yes, people like REP and Smithie are pretty amazing fans and we should all try our very hardest to be more like them. Unfortunately though, not everyone is that perfect. Some fans, sorry, "so called fans" make a choice every other week whether to pay for a product or not. Maybe we should listen to them? Not bow down to them, there's no way we can please everyone, but at least engage.

 

That's why this is the kind of thread the club should be monitoring. I've said it before, OVF can potentially be a source of good for the club, if used correctly and in partnership with, rather than viewing it as the enemy. Where else can the club engage with it's existing / potential customers 24/7. If used professionally, there could be some quick wins, and they could identify some recurring issues that may not cost the earth to address.

 

Or, we could just see where doing nothing gets us eh??? because lets face it, it worked back in the 60's

 

In all fairness, I'll frequently bemoan our poor attendances but I'd never count ( or paint) myself as some kind of superfan. Those kind of people are always slightly alarming.

 

I like my football rough round the edges and really dislike the way the game has gone for fans.

 

I totally understand people who can't afford to go to games. To me, it's criminal how the price of admission has outstripped inflation by so much. I may do 6 away games a season now as I find it very dear.

 

However I will have my say about people who don't go AT ALL but expect to be fawned on by the club to entice them back.

 

We have tried several initiatives that simply flopped. Two- game ticket offers, half season tickets, cash turnstiles....all in response to people moaning. Little or no take-up on any of these.

 

There's also a load of tripe talked about "value for money" as if football should come with guarantees. It's never worked like that as far as I know. That's why we love the game...because of the surprise element.

 

One thing we can't deny is we are losing fans in worrying numbers.

[fairportnick]

In all fairness, I'll frequently bemoan our poor attendances but I'd never count ( or paint) myself as some kind of superfan. Those kind of people are always slightly alarming��.

 

I like my football rough round the edges and really dislike the way the game has gone for fans.

 

I totally understand people who can't afford to go to games. To me, it's criminal how the price of admission has outstripped inflation by so much. I may do 6 away games a season now as I find it very dear.

 

However I will have my say about people who don't go AT ALL but expect to be fawned on by the club to entice them back.

 

We have tried several initiatives that simply flopped. Two- game ticket offers, half season tickets, cash turnstiles....all in response to people moaning. Little or no take-up on any of these.

 

There's also a load of tripe talked about "value for money" as if football should come with guarantees. It's never worked like that as far as I know. That's why we love the game...because of the surprise element.

 

One thing we can't deny is we are losing fans in worrying numbers.

And ridiculous posts go nowhere in solving the problem. I don't wish to be fawned over thanks. I know exactly what would entice me back and only then would I want VFM.You have no idea

[valerule4ever]

Just some simple easy things the club could implement to help fans attend or make it more convenient/easy:-

1.Make Cup tickets available online

2.Sell Tickets for the next home game inside the ground/stands before match/half time

3.Have ticket collection points on match days near the stands to help ease congestion on ticket office.

4.Allow season tickets to be bought/renewed online

5.Have season tickets ready to collect when buying to save people having to come back to pick up.

6.Offer incentives for season ticket holders to bring family/friends to games

7.Also would it be possible to have a unreserved seat/stand season ticket therefore allowing people to move stands/seats per game?

8.Put fixture posters/boards up everywhere in the ground advertising dates/times of future games

 

There is probably loads more that would be fairly easy to implement that would help keep and encourage old and new fans to attend, anymore ideas anyone?

[smithie]

And ridiculous posts go nowhere in solving the problem. I don't wish to be fawned over thanks. I know exactly what would entice me back and only then would I want VFM.You have no idea

 

If you can point out what is ridiculous, I'm all ears.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

And ridiculous posts go nowhere in solving the problem.

 

Don't post then

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

I think within reason, 'laddish' behaviour is good for football and is good for Port Vale. Certainly I have more fun when there is more atmosphere in the home end or if we've been to an away game with a big following. I know certain people won't agree with that, but sanitising the stadiums as you say is not doing anything for football. We've gone too far in that respect. Anything illegal (homophobia, racism etc), get rid of it. After that then it's fair game isn't it? I'm still not sure why we've moved the away fans so far from the paddock. I think that's had a major impact on the atmosphere at home games. There's no interaction between the two sets of supporters.

 

Depends what you think laddish acceptable behaviour is.

[For Us All]

I think you may have a bladder problem.....

 

Whereas stupers may have a ladder problem?