Carlisle (A) match thread - 1st Jan

[Guest]

Our fans travelling that far for that .

It was ridiculously poor in fact I'd say on chances missed it could well have ended 6-1 to Carlisle .

For that alone is a sackable offence .

Watching it home ain't si bad at least you can turn it off at 1 -1 just knew we were going give them the game .

Could see it I'm the body language of players .

In a word they cheated there own support .

Watch it again today if you do  not believe me .

We were atrocious 

[MelbourneValiant]

I have wanted Crosby gone for a while. While today's performance was crap again I agreed with his line up. There was division on here before about playing the youngsters or dropping them. When the alternatives are Massey/Loft/Grant then I agreed not to change the line up from a winning one from last week.

The play though was woeful, we scored after being battered all game and after the penalty there was only going to be one winner. Who is this down to, the players not motivating themselves, the manager not motivating the players. There have been too many bad performances over the season which means for Crosby still aint the chap to take us forward.

We are now 6 points and 6 places behind where we were twelve months ago. We yielded just 14 points after that, if we do that again then we are down, no question about it. Surely we cannot be as bad as that again? Although the strike force is arguably worse, losing the Blaster makes us worse than when we went 11 without a win so it is very possible. I have very little positivity after losing to the side bottom of the league for the 3rd time this season.

[PV1973]

4 hours ago, Powerline said:

That’s the problem. Cass better than Balmer imo, and we also have Conlon who we could’ve brought on without even changing the defence at all. But he’s left them out in the bomb squad.

They’re both done here and will be off if we can get rid. Rumours at the club suggest Conlon already has a move lined up. 

4 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

He made the sub. Balmer makes mistake after mistake and Crosby sticks with him. Get walters on and keep Lowe at CB. Unbelievable some are making out Crosby did nothing wrong. Isn’t the organisation of the defence down to the coaching as well? Yes individual errors but we have seen this from him before. Jan window now personally I’d like to see Balmer sent back. 

You know when you see the players being shown stuff on pads before they come on? That’s them going through their jobs at setpieces. On that corner we’re doing zonal and man marking and you see Balmer (I think) turn and look at the lad who scored before the corner comes in. Then he never looks again to see where he is, gets underneath the ball and they score. Poor defending at that stage of the game. Crosby intimates on his interview afterwards that their player should have been marked and it was also interesting to hear Yatesy after the game talking about the type of characters we need at the back, leaders, experienced and not afraid to do the nasty side of the game. 
 

Plenty of people are comparing where we are now to where we were this time last year. But the key last year was the terrible transfer window. That can’t happen this season, we need a good January. We need to ship out the ones we’ve earmarked to go and we need quality bringing in. 

[Rockape99]

This is not like last season, it’s like Bruno season few good players the rest average , throw in injury and the manager it’s a dangerous cocktail of events slowly conspiring to take us back to league two.Can we change it ? Yes we can but it’s going to take money and some brave actions by Carol and Co.. For Me Crosby will stay , not that I want that and hopefully they will invest in the squad , if not we are goners .

[Sandyford_Lion]

11 hours ago, Lornelounger said:

A player of his experience shouldn't have to rely on the training ground to do the basics in my view - he's played a lot of games in 7 seasons with us, and I'm not sure he's going to get any better. I hope I'm wrong, because he has been a rock when we have needed him in the past.

I just think he is being found out at this level.  To give this some context:  His first season was in league 1 with a team that got relegated.  Not his fault, but he played in every game as we got relegated. He spent the next 5 seasons becoming a rugged defender in a league 2 team that finished in the bottom half of the table for a lot of that time, often flirting with relegation out of the league - we finished 20th two seasons running.  He is one of our heroes because we knew exactly what we would get from him, week in, week out, in the crap teams we fielded back then.  He's become. "legend" in a period when we were in the division below, fighting for our lives, playing Pope ball, and he must have played alongside dozens of defenders by now, good, bad and indifferent.  Fair play to him for standing and being counted back then and helping get us out of that league. Top man - I wrote an ode to him and Gibbo after Wembley.  I like the guy but...

The question when he returned to League 1 was can he cope at this higher level?  He didn't really get the chance in his first season, because he was new and still learning the game. This time round, up against better players, his lack of technique is being found out more often, which is why I think we need better defenders. I'm just not sure how much better Nathan is going to get from here - defenders tend to get wiser but slower as they age, compensating for lack of pace by reading the game better (eg Jason Lowe). Smudge has never been that quick in the first place, so will we get any better with him in the side, being bypassed by pacey strikers, and having no option but to commit fouls?

I know it's not all Smith's fault, it's a team game and if the ball had been in the Carlisle box, he couldn't have conceded that penalty. But I do wonder whether we have to now look beyond him to move forward. When your name is no longer the first one on the team sheet, you either have to change what you are doing, or accept that you may actually be a very brave and committed League 2 defender at the end of the day, but rather error prone in League 1. I really want him to become a better footballer with fewer errors; at his age, this ought to be the peak of his career. If it is the system, and he is really van Dijk in disguise but we keep playing him in the wrong part of the defence, with the wrong tactics, I'll hold up my hands and accept I'm wrong. Is he a good enough defender for a middling League 1 side? Is he able to go beyond that consistently, because that's the sort of player we surely need - isn't it?

Brilliant summary.

[Sandyford_Lion]

11 hours ago, Vtid said:

there all as bad as each other. No stand outs. Smith has struggled at league 1 level, jesse come from non league so it's a big step up ( i get your point about giving him time ), lowe is closing in on retirement his passing is so poor at times & he's too slow & can't win header, Balmer let's not go there, the yak is as clumsy as they come & as bad as smith on the ball, Jones has disappeared, Cass too lightweight & also gone missing. It's come to something when i actually feel Jones is our best centre half right now & we don't know where he is & he's not great either 😂 We've all been slamming the forwards recruitment but when you actually look at our defence & the signings it's no wonder we can't defend 

Again a brilliant summary.

" The BEST player is always the one not on the pitch " ?

[man in the pub]

My disappointment is that on the back of a good result against Blackpool we cannot carry that positive into the next game against the bottom side who hadn't won in 9 games. Only listened on the radio but worringly sounded like the better team won. I don't know what the answer to the problem is as I agreed with playing an unchanged lineup . Players or the manager or a mixture of both ?

[Warren]

It's a big January. We need to actually win some winnable games. Some rotation of the squad is needed and a window where we think it's stronger not weaker on 31st. 

We have improved!? In late Autumn we couldn't score and couldn't defend. Now we can score but still defensively make stupid mistakes and can't absorb late game pressure to see out games we are drawing or winning. 

[Brian Johnson]

10 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

I don’t think it’s that strange a situation.  We’ve seen it before when certain managers have had bad runs, which is obviously what we endured, albeit after a decent start, and many fans have wanted the manager sacked to halt the slide whilst others can see some logic to giving the manager more time.

This is a completely feel to what we have seen before

[Brian Johnson]

15 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Would we have lost if Debrah and Garrity had not got crocked. No. 

Yes, because even with them on the pitch, Carlisle were by far the better team.

 

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, man in the pub said:

My disappointment is that on the back of a good result against Blackpool we cannot carry that positive into the next game against the bottom side who hadn't won in 9 games. Only listened on the radio but worringly sounded like the better team won. I don't know what the answer to the problem is as I agreed with playing an unchanged lineup . Players or the manager or a mixture of both ?

Better team won by far Ripley made two really good saves first half they have blasted over and had another shot just whistled past the post on another day it goes in .

Thats first half did we have a attempt think Wilson hit one it went about 40 yards wide there goalie had nowt do as we were so damn poor .

Then second we score a goal from good play down the left with Chislett setting up Garrity to net .

A minute after we scored we nearly gave one away again with yet more abject defensive play as player put it wide instead of in then we had a very good chance make it 2 with double save from there keeper Wilson and chislett denied .

Then the game looked to me like they had run out of ideas till dopey gave them a lift after that switched it off as knew we had lost as it was so damn predictable as we had thrown the game away yet again against bottom of the league with Smith starring for  the third bottom of the league team who have defeated us 

Port Vale 2 Burton 3 

Port Vale 1 Cheltenham 2

Carlisle 2 Vale 1

It's pretty damn obvious that the players go into these games unmotivated look at the results there disgusting 

UTV 

 

[Bede]

7 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

Weirdly, the fanbase wasn't this divided/angry when Norman was on the brink of sending us to non-league. I've seen one very vocal twitter user get quite aggressive in calling for Carol to sell up - this was previously a bloke who was aggressively positive. It was hard work getting fans to turn on Smurthwaite, years of effort despite a nosedive in position, yet some have turned on Carol for taking us up a division and having the temerity to be 15th.

I'm seeing fans show more aggression and vitriol to Crosby than I can remember towards Bruno, Brown, Aspin, or Askey. Its known I'm not hugely keen on him, and would probably welcome a change, but I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as some are making out - he's just not great. He's also not going anywhere.

It sort of reminds me of the apathy of Rob Page - we had a very decent season with lots of decent players, but a lot of fans were spitting feathers because it was boring. The truth is, most seasons for most clubs are exactly that - really dull. Football is pretty dull, mostly. 

I think we just really struggle with mid-table nothingness. We're so used to this club being on the brink that, perhaps, do we create intense emotions when there isn't a situation to warrant one? We've either been getting promoted, nearly relegated, or pushing for playoffs over the past 6 years, and have had two administrations and a close shave with oblivion in the last 20.  I know I've been guilty of overreacting on many occasions - Colchester away and Bristol Rovers at home in 21/22 being examples - as usually stuff happens at Vale which means we're on the verge of going bump.

Shrewsbury have been at this level for 9 seasons now, finishing between 3rd and 20th but mostly mid-table. Bristol City have spent a similar amount of time in the division above, between 8th and 19th. That's what football is like for most fans. Not a lot happening.

It's perhaps quite hard to accept that we're nothing special, this is likely a completely forgettable season, you'll forget 99% of the games by July, and under current budget restrictions the chances are that not a lot more is going to happen for another few seasons, if all goes roughly to plan.

We won a good game 3 days ago at home, and lost a poor game away today with 2 players off injured and Devine limping around for the last 30. It was a poor performance, but for Smith not being a bit daft we probably see out the win. Crosby's only other option, sub-wise, was Walters - who has been subbed at HT a couple of times and perhaps isn't the best shout to chuck into the fray with 10 minutes to go against a team in the ascendancy. We're an inconsistent team being managed by a manager probably not quite good enough but not a complete and utter fraud. 

This isn't me siding with the 'stick with Crosby, you knee-jerkers' faction in the slightest. I think there's upgrades out there. I'm just trying to understand the reactions when, as much as I've been clear that I'm not convinced he's the right guy, I don't think things are anywhere near as bad as being made out - not to the point to demand Carol sells up.

Spot on post, Joe. 

[Brian Johnson]

7 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

This isn't me siding with the 'stick with Crosby, you knee-jerkers' faction in the slightest. I think there's upgrades out there. I'm just trying to understand the reactions when, as much as I've been clear that I'm not convinced he's the right guy, I don't think things are anywhere near as bad as being made out - not to the point to demand Carol sells up.

I have stuck up for Carol a few times on here over the past few weeks. We have a great club & its wrong for fans to call her out to sell up. 

The one thing that is wrong with the club is the most important position at the club - the manager.

People, me included, would think that mid table is a good season BUT the football is so boring, so much so, that the fans have been chanting on the terraces that the football is <ovf censored>.

The majority of fans want the team to have a proper go at teams which most of the time we dont.

At the end of the game, if the players have left everything on the field after 90 minutes, then everyone will respond to it but most of the time we dont give it a go.  Barnsley first half, Carlisle, Middlesbrough, Wycombe (even though we sneaked a draw) and all thats just in the past few weeks.

[Brian Johnson]

7 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

As poor as some of the results have been, we're 5 points off where we were at this stage last season, where we were pretty much in agreement that things were great.

Are we a returning Mitch Clark in the home straight, Wilson managing 12 more games, and 2 good loan signings away from replicating our points from the first 23 games and ending up with a points total that would have us finishing 12/13th last season?

The difference between now and last season is that we were having a right go at teams where now its all just powder puff and their are no signs to show that this is going to change

[Brian]

8 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

Weirdly, the fanbase wasn't this divided/angry when Norman was on the brink of sending us to non-league. I've seen one very vocal twitter user get quite aggressive in calling for Carol to sell up - this was previously a bloke who was aggressively positive. It was hard work getting fans to turn on Smurthwaite, years of effort despite a nosedive in position, yet some have turned on Carol for taking us up a division and having the temerity to be 15th.

I'm seeing fans show more aggression and vitriol to Crosby than I can remember towards Bruno, Brown, Aspin, or Askey. Its known I'm not hugely keen on him, and would probably welcome a change, but I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as some are making out - he's just not great. He's also not going anywhere.

It sort of reminds me of the apathy of Rob Page - we had a very decent season with lots of decent players, but a lot of fans were spitting feathers because it was boring. The truth is, most seasons for most clubs are exactly that - really dull. Football is pretty dull, mostly. 

I think we just really struggle with mid-table nothingness. We're so used to this club being on the brink that, perhaps, do we create intense emotions when there isn't a situation to warrant one? We've either been getting promoted, nearly relegated, or pushing for playoffs over the past 6 years, and have had two administrations and a close shave with oblivion in the last 20.  I know I've been guilty of overreacting on many occasions - Colchester away and Bristol Rovers at home in 21/22 being examples - as usually stuff happens at Vale which means we're on the verge of going bump.

Shrewsbury have been at this level for 9 seasons now, finishing between 3rd and 20th but mostly mid-table. Bristol City have spent a similar amount of time in the division above, between 8th and 19th. That's what football is like for most fans. Not a lot happening.

It's perhaps quite hard to accept that we're nothing special, this is likely a completely forgettable season, you'll forget 99% of the games by July, and under current budget restrictions the chances are that not a lot more is going to happen for another few seasons, if all goes roughly to plan.

We won a good game 3 days ago at home, and lost a poor game away today with 2 players off injured and Devine limping around for the last 30. It was a poor performance, but for Smith not being a bit daft we probably see out the win. Crosby's only other option, sub-wise, was Walters - who has been subbed at HT a couple of times and perhaps isn't the best shout to chuck into the fray with 10 minutes to go against a team in the ascendancy. We're an inconsistent team being managed by a manager probably not quite good enough but not a complete and utter fraud. 

This isn't me siding with the 'stick with Crosby, you knee-jerkers' faction in the slightest. I think there's upgrades out there. I'm just trying to understand the reactions when, as much as I've been clear that I'm not convinced he's the right guy, I don't think things are anywhere near as bad as being made out - not to the point to demand Carol sells up.