2 minutes ago, Powerline said:

Sorry but that’s rubbish. We sat so deep for the last 30 mins it was unreal, regardless of what subs we made. That’s a tactical decision. Also - you said with Garrity we don’t really have a replacement. I’d argue Conlon could’ve come on, but that’s also a decision by the ‘manager’ to not even have him on the bench. The loss is entirely on Crosby.

You’re blinkered.  Second half we were much better ‘til Wilson went off.  Their attacking subs came on and with nowt to lose they went more gung ho.  That’s not Crosby’s fault.  Funnily enough we were attacking and lost the ball on the edge of their box prior to their winner.  There are 2 teams on the pitch, both made changes.  Perhaps they were able to make tactical changes rather than enforced.  They certainly made attacking changes.  We had to take the 2 young lads off, who’d played so well in the last game but were struggling in this, and Debrah and Garrity were enforced changes.  Our squad is paper thin right now.  That’s not down to Crosby.

I’m a fan of Conlon, many aren’t, but he’s no Garrity.  He was supposedly moving last summer but got injured.  He’s highly likely to be moving this Jan.  Also, as you may remember, in his last game he was very poor.  The question is then why would we risk giving him a place on the bench on the first of Jan with a move imminent?

21 minutes ago, Powerline said:

Who was it that brought Balmer onto the pitch? Even though we know he’s a liability and has proven it time and time again.

Looking at our bench who should he have bought on?

8 minutes ago, valefan79 said:

I hate hearing would we have lost if they have not got injured, no one knows, what we know is that we lost to a rubbish side again.  Would we have won against Wigan if Chislett had not scored with a massive deflection, would we have gone on and beat Blackpool if Jake Beesley who always does well against us not got injured early in the game or if Ripley had not made a couple of great saves at nil nil and one nil.  

Would we have won if Ripley had played it left after the kick off instead of booting it upfield?

Edited January 1, 20242 yr by NellyTheValiant

20 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

You’re blinkered.  Second half we were much better ‘til Wilson went off.  Their attacking subs came on and with nowt to lose they went more gung ho.  That’s not Crosby’s fault.  Funnily enough we were attacking and lost the ball on the edge of their box prior to their winner.  There are 2 teams on the pitch, both made changes.  Perhaps they were able to make tactical changes rather than enforced.  They certainly made attacking changes.  We had to take the 2 young lads off, who’d played so well in the last game but were struggling in this, and Debrah and Garrity were enforced changes.  Our squad is paper thin right now.  That’s not down to Crosby.

I’m a fan of Conlon, many aren’t, but he’s no Garrity.  He was supposedly moving last summer but got injured.  He’s highly likely to be moving this Jan.  Also, as you may remember, in his last game he was very poor.  The question is then why would we risk giving him a place on the bench on the first of Jan with a move imminent?

Was his last game not Burton away? I was there and he was not very poor.

We were not much better. They still missed several decent chances. The only decent chances we had all game were the goal, and a volley from outside the area from Wilson which their keeper spilt and then saved the rebound from Chislett.

I agreed with most of Crosby’s subs as the two young lads were getting torn apart. What I didn’t agree with was sitting so deep for the last half an hour. The only sub I wasn’t happy with was Balmer. Imo Cass is better, and if Conlon was on the bench, we could’ve gone like for like. So that’s on Crosby for not picking them.

Edited January 1, 20242 yr by Powerline

you forgot Wilson on that little list mate. Can't possibly tell me James wilson doesn't have quality [emoji848] 

If you read the post, I think you will find I did not forget Wilson. Although maybe not in the way you would like

Sent from my SM-A528B using onevalefan mobile app

49 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

You’re blinkered.  Second half we were much better ‘til Wilson went off.  Their attacking subs came on and with nowt to lose they went more gung ho.  That’s not Crosby’s fault.  Funnily enough we were attacking and lost the ball on the edge of their box prior to their winner.  There are 2 teams on the pitch, both made changes.  Perhaps they were able to make tactical changes rather than enforced.  They certainly made attacking changes.  We had to take the 2 young lads off, who’d played so well in the last game but were struggling in this, and Debrah and Garrity were enforced changes.  Our squad is paper thin right now.  That’s not down to Crosby.

I’m a fan of Conlon, many aren’t, but he’s no Garrity.  He was supposedly moving last summer but got injured.  He’s highly likely to be moving this Jan.  Also, as you may remember, in his last game he was very poor.  The question is then why would we risk giving him a place on the bench on the first of Jan with a move imminent?

 

Being better for 20 minutes or so means zilch. We were absolutely appalling in the first half. The only way we could have been worse is if our players ran out blindfolded. Second half we were bang average for 20 minutes or so, and then went back to being utter dog <ovf censored> for the remainder of the game. Carlisle beat us deservedly and yet we won't play a worse team all season. Woeful!

Crosby strikes again.

Edited January 1, 20242 yr by Valiiant

33 minutes ago, Powerline said:

Was his last game not Burton away? I was there and he was not very poor.

We were not much better. They still missed several decent chances. The only decent chances we had all game were the goal, and a volley from outside the area from Wilson which their keeper spilt and then saved the rebound from Chislett.

I agreed with most of Crosby’s subs as the two young lads were getting torn apart. What I didn’t agree with was sitting so deep for the last half an hour. The only sub I wasn’t happy with was Balmer. Imo Cass is better, and if Conlon was on the bench, we could’ve gone like for like. So that’s on Crosby for not picking them.

An issue I have here is it was obvious that the young players should not have started. He was asking too much of them physically. He's ended up making subs at HT and compromised the whole game. 

We don't know about contract requirements, players about to leave and injuries. But Balmer isn't close to L1 standard in anyway. So I would have brought on Walters and maintained a counter attacking threat. 

He's blooding young players and we have to accept some risk with that. But Crosby loses games multiple times late on. He's the manager and I think he's rubbish at game management. 

I must admit I was surprised that that Shorrock and Lomax both started  I thought it might be a bridge too far and that was shown at half time.

AC does himself no favours with his in game management, Stevenage comes to mind, we seem to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, that needs to be sorted out.

He needs a good transfer window to stop the jitters, some early business will show intent, its a big month coming up, lets hope we get it right.

1 hour ago, Guitar Ray said:

Looking at our bench who should he have bought on?

Walters and keep Lowe at CB where he was having a decent game. Hopeless in midfield 

Weirdly, the fanbase wasn't this divided/angry when Norman was on the brink of sending us to non-league. I've seen one very vocal twitter user get quite aggressive in calling for Carol to sell up - this was previously a bloke who was aggressively positive. It was hard work getting fans to turn on Smurthwaite, years of effort despite a nosedive in position, yet some have turned on Carol for taking us up a division and having the temerity to be 15th.

I'm seeing fans show more aggression and vitriol to Crosby than I can remember towards Bruno, Brown, Aspin, or Askey. Its known I'm not hugely keen on him, and would probably welcome a change, but I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as some are making out - he's just not great. He's also not going anywhere.

It sort of reminds me of the apathy of Rob Page - we had a very decent season with lots of decent players, but a lot of fans were spitting feathers because it was boring. The truth is, most seasons for most clubs are exactly that - really dull. Football is pretty dull, mostly. 

I think we just really struggle with mid-table nothingness. We're so used to this club being on the brink that, perhaps, do we create intense emotions when there isn't a situation to warrant one? We've either been getting promoted, nearly relegated, or pushing for playoffs over the past 6 years, and have had two administrations and a close shave with oblivion in the last 20.  I know I've been guilty of overreacting on many occasions - Colchester away and Bristol Rovers at home in 21/22 being examples - as usually stuff happens at Vale which means we're on the verge of going bump.

Shrewsbury have been at this level for 9 seasons now, finishing between 3rd and 20th but mostly mid-table. Bristol City have spent a similar amount of time in the division above, between 8th and 19th. That's what football is like for most fans. Not a lot happening.

It's perhaps quite hard to accept that we're nothing special, this is likely a completely forgettable season, you'll forget 99% of the games by July, and under current budget restrictions the chances are that not a lot more is going to happen for another few seasons, if all goes roughly to plan.

We won a good game 3 days ago at home, and lost a poor game away today with 2 players off injured and Devine limping around for the last 30. It was a poor performance, but for Smith not being a bit daft we probably see out the win. Crosby's only other option, sub-wise, was Walters - who has been subbed at HT a couple of times and perhaps isn't the best shout to chuck into the fray with 10 minutes to go against a team in the ascendancy. We're an inconsistent team being managed by a manager probably not quite good enough but not a complete and utter fraud. 

This isn't me siding with the 'stick with Crosby, you knee-jerkers' faction in the slightest. I think there's upgrades out there. I'm just trying to understand the reactions when, as much as I've been clear that I'm not convinced he's the right guy, I don't think things are anywhere near as bad as being made out - not to the point to demand Carol sells up.

Edited January 2, 20242 yr by JoeB2

1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

Would we have lost if Debrah and Garrity had not got crocked. No. 

Why? 
 
We have lost plenty this season when both have played why would this game be different? We didn’t exactly play well with them on the pitch. 

 

1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

Yeh I agree. Crosby let that bloke have a free header for the winner. Should have marked him better. 

He made the sub. Balmer makes mistake after mistake and Crosby sticks with him. Get walters on and keep Lowe at CB. Unbelievable some are making out Crosby did nothing wrong. Isn’t the organisation of the defence down to the coaching as well? Yes individual errors but we have seen this from him before. Jan window now personally I’d like to see Balmer sent back. 

As poor as some of the results have been, we're 5 points off where we were at this stage last season, where we were pretty much in agreement that things were great.

Are we a returning Mitch Clark in the home straight, Wilson managing 12 more games, and 2 good loan signings away from replicating our points from the first 23 games and ending up with a points total that would have us finishing 12/13th last season?

Edited January 2, 20242 yr by JoeB2

1 hour ago, Guitar Ray said:

Looking at our bench who should he have bought on?

That’s the problem. Cass better than Balmer imo, and we also have Conlon who we could’ve brought on without even changing the defence at all. But he’s left them out in the bomb squad.

29 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

Weirdly, the fanbase wasn't this divided/angry when Norman was on the brink of sending us to non-league. I've seen one very vocal twitter user get quite aggressive in calling for Carol to sell up - this was previously a bloke who was aggressively positive. It was hard work getting fans to turn on Smurthwaite, years of effort despite a nosedive in position, yet some have turned on Carol for taking us up a division and having the temerity to be 15th.

I'm seeing fans show more aggression and vitriol to Crosby than I can remember towards Bruno, Brown, Aspin, or Askey. Its known I'm not hugely keen on him, and would probably welcome a change, but I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as some are making out - he's just not great. He's also not going anywhere.

It sort of reminds me of the apathy of Rob Page - we had a very decent season with lots of decent players, but a lot of fans were spitting feathers because it was boring. The truth is, most seasons for most clubs are exactly that - really dull. Football is pretty dull, mostly. 

I think we just really struggle with mid-table nothingness. We're so used to this club being on the brink that, perhaps, do we create intense emotions when there isn't a situation to warrant one? We've either been getting promoted, nearly relegated, or pushing for playoffs over the past 6 years, and have had two administrations and a close shave with oblivion in the last 20.  I know I've been guilty of overreacting on many occasions - Colchester away and Bristol Rovers at home in 21/22 being examples - as usually stuff happens at Vale which means we're on the verge of going bump.

Shrewsbury have been at this level for 9 seasons now, finishing between 3rd and 20th but mostly mid-table. Bristol City have spent a similar amount of time in the division above, between 8th and 19th. That's what football is like for most fans. Not a lot happening.

It's perhaps quite hard to accept that we're nothing special, this is likely a completely forgettable season, you'll forget 99% of the games by July, and under current budget restrictions the chances are that not a lot more is going to happen for another few seasons, if all goes roughly to plan.

We won a good game 3 days ago at home, and lost a poor game away today with 2 players off injured and Devine limping around for the last 30. It was a poor performance, but for Smith not being a bit daft we probably see out the win. Crosby's only other option, sub-wise, was Walters - who has been subbed at HT a couple of times and perhaps isn't the best shout to chuck into the fray with 10 minutes to go against a team in the ascendancy. We're an inconsistent team being managed by a manager probably not quite good enough but not a complete and utter fraud. 

This isn't me siding with the 'stick with Crosby, you knee-jerkers' faction in the slightest. I think there's upgrades out there. I'm just trying to understand the reactions when, as much as I've been clear that I'm not convinced he's the right guy, I don't think things are anywhere near as bad as being made out - not to the point to demand Carol sells up.

I think the reason people seem angrier at Crosby is because the others had all been sacked by this point. Bruno and Brown didn’t last till Christmas. I can’t remember when our form nosedived under aspin but he was sacked before it had got to this point with the fans. I remember going to Lincoln away and people were not happy with him at all, and he was a club legend. With Askey there were no fans in the ground to watch it. 

In Crosby’s case, it’s the culmination of several months of built up anger. Pretty much any other club on our run would’ve sacked the manager. Some even did such as Cambridge, Bristol rovers etc., and they weren’t doing as badly as us. But we’ve kept with him and allowed the anger to build.

Additionally, I don’t think a lot of fans feel as comfortable as you make out we are. We are only 6 points clear. Lose the next 3 and we are right in the mire.

I agree about carol, I’m happy with her personally. But I think what annoys people is the complete radio silence. When we are winning she’s about but when we are losing she’s nowhere to be seen. It was the same last season and the club admitted they were too quiet and would improve. Well it seems they haven’t done so.

1 hour ago, JoeB2 said:

Weirdly, the fanbase wasn't this divided/angry when Norman was on the brink of sending us to non-league. I've seen one very vocal twitter user get quite aggressive in calling for Carol to sell up - this was previously a bloke who was aggressively positive. It was hard work getting fans to turn on Smurthwaite, years of effort despite a nosedive in position, yet some have turned on Carol for taking us up a division and having the temerity to be 15th.

I'm seeing fans show more aggression and vitriol to Crosby than I can remember towards Bruno, Brown, Aspin, or Askey. Its known I'm not hugely keen on him, and would probably welcome a change, but I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as some are making out - he's just not great. He's also not going anywhere.

It sort of reminds me of the apathy of Rob Page - we had a very decent season with lots of decent players, but a lot of fans were spitting feathers because it was boring. The truth is, most seasons for most clubs are exactly that - really dull. Football is pretty dull, mostly. 

I think we just really struggle with mid-table nothingness. We're so used to this club being on the brink that, perhaps, do we create intense emotions when there isn't a situation to warrant one? We've either been getting promoted, nearly relegated, or pushing for playoffs over the past 6 years, and have had two administrations and a close shave with oblivion in the last 20.  I know I've been guilty of overreacting on many occasions - Colchester away and Bristol Rovers at home in 21/22 being examples - as usually stuff happens at Vale which means we're on the verge of going bump.

Shrewsbury have been at this level for 9 seasons now, finishing between 3rd and 20th but mostly mid-table. Bristol City have spent a similar amount of time in the division above, between 8th and 19th. That's what football is like for most fans. Not a lot happening.

It's perhaps quite hard to accept that we're nothing special, this is likely a completely forgettable season, you'll forget 99% of the games by July, and under current budget restrictions the chances are that not a lot more is going to happen for another few seasons, if all goes roughly to plan.

We won a good game 3 days ago at home, and lost a poor game away today with 2 players off injured and Devine limping around for the last 30. It was a poor performance, but for Smith not being a bit daft we probably see out the win. Crosby's only other option, sub-wise, was Walters - who has been subbed at HT a couple of times and perhaps isn't the best shout to chuck into the fray with 10 minutes to go against a team in the ascendancy. We're an inconsistent team being managed by a manager probably not quite good enough but not a complete and utter fraud. 

This isn't me siding with the 'stick with Crosby, you knee-jerkers' faction in the slightest. I think there's upgrades out there. I'm just trying to understand the reactions when, as much as I've been clear that I'm not convinced he's the right guy, I don't think things are anywhere near as bad as being made out - not to the point to demand Carol sells up.

 

Some people don't forget he was the wrong choice to begin with. We sacked a brilliant lower league manager (not saying at all his time wasn't up) and appointed the cheap and easy option, Crosby. It smacked of a lack of ambition, or just a lack of resources. Who on earth thought that someone who had never managed before, other than his temporary spell for us where he won all of one game, was likely to be a success? Like Flitcroft, he talks a good game, and has the ability to puff his chest out and hold his chin up in defeat. Sadly he doesn't have the ability to be a League One manager, and when he's inevitably sacked whether that's sooner or later, you'll  see him managing a Leek Town or a Buxton.