The case for Andy Crosby

[smithie]

In brief, here's my defence case for AC;

1. We are seriously hampered by several injuries. No doubt we should have the squad capacity to cover these but it's rare to have so many at once. If the recruitment (or lack of it)  is done at a level above AC then he can't be held responsible for the squad shortcomings.

2. l think it's fair to say that Saturday v Cheltenham was the first truly poor performance since the 2nd half at Barnsley. Given the number of inexperienced youngsters in the side against a resurgent Cheltenham with a motivated DC leading them, it was never going to be a home banker. I certainly didn't enjoy watching it but I think it's important to remember we gave Posh a decent game less than a week ago. 

3. AC is in his infancy as a gaffer but he's a veteran on the football scene. You only have to listen to him to hear how he analyses and thinks through pretty much everything he and his team does. He's in no way naive nor is he arrogant in the way l often felt Micky Adams could be. It would be highly unusual if he got everything right first time in his first stint as manager and we shouldn't realistically expect him to.

4. There are over 6 months of the season left. That's an awful lot of football to be played and we all know that a stroke of long-overdue luck could come our way and change things quickly. And no, I'm not relying on luck - but our fortunes in the past have hinged on good luck, like the goal that took us up in 2013, the ball sticking in the mud v Stoke in the Cup and the Gibbons/Stone near-disaster at Wembley last year.

5. For what it's worth, Andy Crosby wants to be here. As much as we all appreciate what DC did for us, it seems he was ready to jump ship to Portsmouth once the opportunity presented itself and that must have been a bad influence on the rest of last season. My hunch is that AC probably wouldn't act like that.

That will be all, m'lud! 

[MagicFlask]

To me, that makes sense- but the way we are playing at the minute seems to be counter intuitive to the players we have- especially when things go wrong at all. 
Too many players playing out of position and some key players (Smudge for example) having bad games, which is either because he’s out of position or just playing badly. 
We need more power up front and someone who actually looks like they are going to score. 

it was, as you say, the worst display all season. 
 

[rayzer]

I understand that Crosby applied for the Newport job last season but decided to stay with us because he would have had to take a drop in his salary. This came from a good source.

[Fosse69]

I understand that Crosby applied for the Newport job last season but decided to stay with us because he would have had to take a drop in his salary. This came from a good source.

I assume that was when he was an assistant, whereas DC was a manager.

Sent from my SM-A715F using onevalefan mobile app

[Wrex]

#1 is a fair arguement. We have had a lot of key injuries, much more than is typical and it would be reasonable to expect them to detail any campaign.

#2 is also fair. We have had two games where we have looked like relegation fodder. In the rest we've given at least a half decent account of ourselves.

#3 isn't much of a defence. Sure, we shouldn't expect a rookie manager not to make mistakes, but we sacked an experienced manager to give the rookie the job. Not that that is Crosby's fault.

#4 sure things might change. Let's hope they do.

#5 doesn't seem to be correct. Crosby was supposedly off to Newport last season and being here as a coach for a few years doesn't make him any more of less likely to be loyal than anyone else who has been at one club for a few years.

[smithie]

I know of the reported Newport thing, but I don't think anyone would blame him for trying to make the step up from coach (as he was then) to manager. 

I suppose my last point might be more of a dig at DC than anything, as I don't doubt it winded Carol after all the support she'd given Darrell. Would Andy Crosby do similar - my gut feeling is no.          

[Brian Johnson]

4 minutes ago, smithie said:

I know of the reported Newport thing, but I don't think anyone would blame him for trying to make the step up from coach (as he was then) to manager. 

I suppose my last point might be more of a dig at DC than anything, as I don't doubt it winded Carol after all the support she'd given Darrell. Would Andy Crosby do similar - my gut feeling is no.          

Do not be so naive enough to think that AC would not move on if given the chance.

Also, why should DC not be interested in a job like Portsmouth. It was not like he was applying to go to a club like a Tranmere, Doncaster Rovers or Grimsby 

[JoeB2]

I'm at a point where I don't think Crosby will be a disaster - I don't think we'll go down, and he'll eventually pull out of this nosedive. He does some things quite well, and with the right conditions (a fit squad, the element of surprise when using a new style of play, a bit of luck), he can be quite an effective manager. He's managed 41 games for us and won 18, losing 14 - a pretty good record. I think we'll win tomorrow as everyone thinks we'll lose.

However, I'm not sure he's the man for us in the, to quote the man, 'medium to long term'. Although he's been unlucky, we haven't seen any signs of successful adaptation to the situation. He's largely stuck to the same possession style, which was great when he had everybody fit and is boring with a few absentees. When he tried to change things on Saturday, we looked worse than ever.

He's also very streaky - in 21/22 as interim, he went 8-9 games unbeaten, then lost 3 in a row and nearly threw away promotion. His 8 game win then 8 game winless run this season reflects that. When things go well, he's great. Then, teams figure him out, or he gets a few injuries, and he can't react to it, so we become just as consistently poor as we were previously consistently good.

It's a question now of what the plan is. The club's been re-directing since the New Year (rightly) into a self-sufficient model and seemingly going all in on the long-term 'process' approach with a club playing style which coaches adhere to, as opposed to a big personality manager coming in and shaping the club to his whims (as DC did to an extent). Crosby will be cheaper than most, happy to fit into Flitcroft's vision, and will probably be competent enough to avoid it blowing up in their faces. I think this is why there was no interview process - they needed, to be a tad disrespectful, a 'yes-man' who could step right in and keep things ticking during a time of change.

I think there's better out there, though, and eventually we'll move on from Crosby who (unfortunately) I think is being used as the cheap stopgap whilst we move from 'Carol invests 10 million in 4 years' to 'the club funds itself'. The question remains as to when the patience will run out, as it was pretty much gone in the stands at 5pm Saturday and will vanish if we're out of the cup tomorrow night. Things may turn unpleasant if he clings on when the fans have long given up.

[MBE]

I'm struggling with your defence Smithie. You make 5 valid points but I don't think any of them back an argument for Crosby.

1/ Fair point. I still think our biggest loss is Yak in both boxes however it's up to the manager to find a solution to the injuries within his squad. He's just not done that and is very rigid in his formation and tactics despite the players available at his disposal.Ironically Saturday was the most he had changed playing with 2 up front and asking Chizzy to come deep to play out of a press but the team looked like they didn't know what they were doing. Thats on the manager.

2/ This is the big problem for me. We weren't great against Posh. Our lads should have been highly motivated to put that right. Cheltenham should have been under pressure early on but we looked extremely lethargic and scared stiff of passing a ball forward lacking any clear plan. The midfield was non existent, poor Ojo played on his own and we are getting into positions where poor Nathan Smith is expected to do something on the ball.Very very poor planning.

3/ I agree completely with you which is not a defence for him to stay as manager.Looks like a coach, sounds like a coach, he's probably a coach.

4/ We do need a bit of luck for this to change but you have to make your own luck. If we are not taking shots from the edge of the area or putting balls in the box we will never get any luck. Over playing out wide then sideways and then back to the goalkeeper for a long ball to Sang will not create luck. We must be the only team at home who can have a corner and within 3 touches the GK has it.

5/  He's here because he's been given the opportunity to manage. He wouldn't be here if he was given that chance elsewhere. 

[Osh]

I'd go a step further; I think the team players (along with the management) not only like him but believe in him, too.

I've seen several posts, on here and social media, with people saying that they "think/believe" that he's "lost the dressing room" - people who have no deep connection into the club and would know more about the contents of my socks than what anyone inside the club thinks of AC.  

Yet, when individual members of the team (and former members: e.g. Hall) are interviewed they all say what a great person he is and believe in him as a manager.

Everyone wants instant gratification these days; it's just rediculous for us to just get rid of him because of a poor run.  I, like every other Vale, wants to win every game three-nil.  BUT, I know thats just not going to happen.  I, like every other Vale fan, am not happy about the current slump in form and I want it sorted out.  For my money, i'm happy to give AC up to Christmas to do that.

UTV. KTF

[valiant_593]

I personally don’t see how in any way it can be seen as ridiculous so sack a manager with 2 points from 24 against some poor sides (bottom who hadn’t won away, posh who are poor away and Bristol who sacked there manager last week / not to mention Burton who were what 2nd bottom when they beat us). Scoring what 1 goal in 6 games and setting up the same week after week.  

I understand some wanting him to stay but to say it would be a ridiculous decision to sack him is just wrong. 

In my opinion we’re on a sinking ship. We’ve just had the best opportunity to get back up and running and spurned out probably our worst performance of the season, I don’t see us improving unless something changes. We don’t create chances and look a liability at the back every game. For me, if we wait until Christmas we will have a real scrap on our hands to stay up. Lose tomorrow he’s gone IMO, but I would have got rid Saturday 

[Wrex]

19 minutes ago, Osh said:

people who have no deep connection into the club and would know more about the contents of my socks than what anyone inside the club thinks of AC. 

I mean, surely your feet are the contents of your socks? What else is in there?

[NorthwoodValiant]

11 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

I personally don’t see how in any way it can be seen as ridiculous so sack a manager with 2 points from 24 against some poor sides (bottom who hadn’t won away, posh who are poor away and Bristol who sacked there manager last week / not to mention Burton who were what 2nd bottom when they beat us). Scoring what 1 goal in 6 games and setting up the same week after week.  

I understand some wanting him to stay but to say it would be a ridiculous decision to sack him is just wrong. 

In my opinion we’re on a sinking ship. We’ve just had the best opportunity to get back up and running and spurned out probably our worst performance of the season, I don’t see us improving unless something changes. We don’t create chances and look a liability at the back every game. For me, if we wait until Christmas we will have a real scrap on our hands to stay up. Lose tomorrow he’s gone IMO, but I would have got rid Saturday 

In my opinion he's got the Next four games (Not including the pisspot game), lose all 4 and he's gone, only win 1 of the next 4 and not win one of the two league games and he's got to go. 

Calling Peterborough a 'Poor side' when they are 5th is Disingenuous, Bristol beat us because we had a player sent off

[pete vale]

My thoughts for what they are worth.

After the 7-0 at Barnsley and looking at the team selection, I wondered who the hell was picking the side.

After that we looked a decent side playing pressing 'good-on-the-eye' football. I was happy.

I have been happy with the keeper, Lacovitti, Arblaster, Chislett and Devine. Lowe is decent of late.

Letting Worrall go because of no 2-year deal was a crime. The biggest downfall has been the lack of replacements for the injury prone Proctor and Wilson in recent times. Shocking in fact.

How many sides have you seen at Vale who have forwards who look better than ours?

How many of these sides have a DOF?

I like Andy Crosby and believe he had a major impact on us achieving promotion and stopping up last season to a degree. He deserves a go.

I also wonder if he indeed has the final say in football matters or is there a committe headed up by Flitcroft?

The club looks in the mire financially as clearly depicted after Christmas last year. I also point to many changes in and around the place in terms of employees and the over reliamce on technology on and off the pitch. There appears a lack of identity and conrol - common sense some would say.

We can't score goals, we have numerous injuries, we look as though we are struggling financially. It does not look good to me. This is not all Andy Crosby's fault however. He may be the fall-guy.

We really need a full-side at Mansfield and somehow get the win. A bad defeat there and a loss to Burton leaves us in a very perilous position leading up to the festive period.

Big game tomorrow for us all imo.

[TJHValiant]

The only hope I have with Crosby is that traditionally when we have put in a truly appalling performance like against Colchester in league 2 or Barnsley he has shown a knack for getting a response from the players. 
 

If he doesn’t do this on Tuesday then we will know to get rid. Although it needs to be the whole backroom staff and no ex Vale players. Great as Ainsworth is, we would still make decisions on sentiment rather than reality. 

Nigel Pearson is who is needed. Yeah he wouldn’t work under Flitcroft, but nobody with a grasp of competent management would