Match Thread: Rochdale v Port Vale

[TJHValiant]

It is an odd one. Our promotion season was against the backdrop of the worst turmoil in history and we ended it with Smurfwaite. 
 

The cold hard facts are, two of the most successful seasons post 2000 were under his ownership. Our highest ever finish since Horton in league 1 was under a Smurfwaite ownership regime. 

Obviously much of that success was due to a brilliant Adams supported by a hugely underrated Page but given the circumstances of the improved ownership, attendances etc should be not be expecting more? 
 

Admittedly three or so of the worst seasons ever followed when Smurfwaite went mad and stopped taking his pills but still. 
 

We are in danger of another season of promise fading into mediocrity. 

[Joe B]

3 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

Obviously much all of that success was due to a brilliant Adams supported by a hugely underrated Page

Fixed it for you. Once those two left the club, we nearly ended up in non-league.

[Iron Curtain]

1 minute ago, valiant_593 said:

Of course yeah nonsense…. 

It’s fine. Signing loan players with barely any match time is clearly the way to go - it’s served us so well in the past and will clearly help us build and develop a squad for years to come. 

That’s a completely different argument… probably because the one about judging DC before he was here was a bit silly 😂

As we both now agree… we may need to wait for longer than 1 full season before they get it right.

Welcome to the world of football, not all signings work out, players you want aren’t always available like in championship manager. There are ups and downs.

Hence why… and here is a radical idea… it’s wrong to demand instant success!

Leta flip the narrative. You seem like a passionate fan… what about the new regime do you like? 

We have gone from relegation candidates to play off candidates on their watch, so they are clearly doing something right.

Whats impressed you?

[TJHValiant]

33 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Not really sure how to respond to this one.

So we should judge DC and Flickers whole new approach to how port vale football club is run and their project based on the years BEFORE they got here because some of the players are the same?

I must be missing something because that’s clearly nonsense. 

 

Why yes. Look at the horrible situation Adams dealt with and Page, yet they both managed to put a, by Vale standards, winning team on the pitch. 

Flitcroft and Page have supportive owners and fans. It is reasonable to think what more do they need to be a success to get out of league 2? 

[TJHValiant]

1 minute ago, Joe B said:

Fixed it for you. Once those two left the club, we nearly ended up in non-league.

Well no, the fans who raised money saving the club from extinction deserve much of that credit. As do the players who stuck with the club despite the financial issues. 

[geoff1]

53 minutes ago, Port Vale Paul said:

Agree with all the above, I would just add its all well and good to set up not to loose but eventually you have to start setting up to win and believe in yourselves, i.e Forest Green / Carlisle performances spring to mind.. 

ps. to cap the night off, the journey home apart from the loss took twice as long as to go with motorway closures etc.

all part of the port vale experience!☺️

[Iron Curtain]

1 minute ago, TJHValiant said:

Why yes. Look at the horrible situation Adams dealt with and Page, yet they both managed to put a, by Vale standards, winning team on the pitch. 

Flitcroft and Page have supportive owners and fans. It is reasonable to think what more do they need to be a success to get out of league 2? 

More than one attempt at doing it?

Football isn’t like championship manager… you can be brilliant and make all the right moves and it not happen fo you.

All I’m asking is that we don’t turn on them because attempt number 1 didn’t play out perfectly!

I genuinely don’t think that’s unreasonable!!!!

Do you?

[TJHValiant]

7 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

More than one attempt at doing it?

Football isn’t like championship manager… you can be brilliant and make all the right moves and it not happen fo you.

All I’m asking is that we don’t turn on them because attempt number 1 didn’t play out perfectly!

I genuinely don’t think that’s unreasonable!!!!

Do you?

No way should anyone be calling for change. I don’t think that. I do think given the stability targets should be higher than where we are. 

[valiant_593]

12 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

That’s a completely different argument… probably because the one about judging DC before he was here was a bit silly 😂

As we both now agree… we may need to wait for longer than 1 full season before they get it right.

Welcome to the world of football, not all signings work out, players you want aren’t always available like in championship manager. There are ups and downs.

Hence why… and here is a radical idea… it’s wrong to demand instant success!

Leta flip the narrative. You seem like a passionate fan… what about the new regime do you like? 

We have gone from relegation candidates to play off candidates on their watch, so they are clearly doing something right.

Whats impressed you?

not sure on the first point. My point was that we are discussing developing a squad - I was merely pointing out that our best two players were here before DC. Clearly not judging DC before then as that makes zero sense but that wasn’t the point I was trying to make.

We’ve signed numerous players this season that we’re quite clearly not going to cut it. The January window was very Brown esc - sign loads hope one comes good. Signing a 3rd keeper made no sense. We needed a decent striker, that and someone to replace Politic - as good as Hussey is, we didn’t exactly need him. 

Nobody is demanding instant success.  

It was auto promotion candidates until recently.. weren’t we play off candidates under Askey as well at one point? It Starting to feel like another season where we start well and fade away.

Look it’s been a blatant improvement on years gone by even with the dodgy window and recent performances, I just feel, like many do that we do have some decent players and finishing 9th / 10th and failing to beat sides like Rochdale isn’t exactly something to aim for. 

New regime. I love the new owners, big fan of DC just wish he would try a back 4 against weaker sides at home. Think he’s the best manager we have had since Adams. Although not difficult. Crosby is a real asset. 
Hall, Hussey, Jones, Pett, Garrity and Proctor have all been great signings and at the time I thought Benning was as well. I was really impressed by everything we did in the window / season up until the Walsall game. I didn’t criticise until that point (apart from Cov and his antics). We were scoring for fun, playing great football and looking like clear contenders. 

Since then - injuries clearly noted. We have looked a shadow of that side. Even with signing what 8/9 players in January and having everyone but Conlon back. he’s a big player, but one player missing out shouldn’t be the reason that we lack any kind of creativity and that our set up is completely different to what got us to 2nd in the league. I didn’t notice earlier in the season that we based our whole gameplan on what the oppositions style is. Now it seems our entire gameplan is based on the opposition and we’re more focussed on stopping them than imposing ourselves on the game. We didn’t let sides like Accrington come and play there game. We imposed ourselves and completely battered them, same to some extent with Forest Green, especially away from home. I know they set up differently to Northampton / Tranmere. But I’d love us to go back and base our tactics on our strengths. 

[Wrex]

43 minutes ago, valefan16 said:

I want Lucas back now I think, i was furious after Swindon and if we had booted him out the club I would have said good riddance at the time but out of the emotion of that and the performances of Holy we need him back now. 

That goal should have been saved last night but his positioning was poor, few steps out seeing what was going to happen and reading the game and the angle is narrower and he makes the stop, didnt exactly close off the angle for the Tranmere goal either.

Problem is at the moment Lucas isn't even on the bench which suggests Stone would be the change if made at the moment.

I think Covolan is just another case of a player being seen as a world beater once he is not playing. If he remains sidelined until the end of the season that would be fine with me

[MBE]

1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

Because he is the DOF not part of the first team management team. 

That’s not how a DOF role works if it’s being done properly.

In the old days, the DOF was hanging over the managers head ready to replace him at the drop of a hat… it made for terrible dynamics.

The new modern version (think Brentford) has a wider remit and isn’t there as an alternative to the manager.

A DOF wouldn’t always step in when managers leave, their job isn’t first team day to day management and therefore Crosby will be better placed.

Yes I get that but these are exceptional circumstances ( If DC is away until the summer) surely it makes sense for Flitcroft. He has loads of management experience especially at this level and in a promotion run in. I just think that’s valuable experience that should be utilised during this period. Crosby is a really really good coach but he’s never been a manager.

Surely the DOF duties can be put on hold for 3 months or delegate to others members of staff to put ourselves in the best position for this difficult period?

It should be all hands to the pump to rally around the 1st team (and DC) at the business end.

[Joe B]

32 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

All I’m asking is that we don’t turn on them because attempt number 1 didn’t play out perfectly!

I genuinely don’t think that’s unreasonable!!!!

Do you?

Bit of a strawman, all this. I'm not seeing any real level of 'let's scrap Flitters/DC/The Matrix'. Fans are annoyed because autos are gone and playoffs is probably less than a coin flip, and League 2 is a tiring old slog, and the cycle of 'start well, fall away' is becoming a tad predictable.

You're then criticising these fans by suggesting they're turning on the entire project, which I don't think anyone is seriously doing - just pointing out the mistakes which has probably cost us this year, around recruitment and tactics.

[Iron Curtain]

2 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

not sure on the first point. My point was that we are discussing developing a squad - I was merely pointing out that our best two players were here before DC. Clearly not judging DC before then as that makes zero sense but that wasn’t the point I was trying to make.

We’ve signed numerous players this season that we’re quite clearly not going to cut it. The January window was very Brown esc - sign loads hope one comes good. Signing a 3rd keeper made no sense. We needed a decent striker, that and someone to replace Politic - as good as Hussey is, we didn’t exactly need him. 

Nobody is demanding instant success.  

It was auto promotion candidates until recently.. weren’t we play off candidates under Askey as well at one point? It Starting to feel like another season where we start well and fade away.

Look it’s been a blatant improvement on years gone by even with the dodgy window and recent performances, I just feel, like many do that we do have some decent players and finishing 9th / 10th and failing to beat sides like Rochdale isn’t exactly something to aim for. 

New regime. I love the new owners, big fan of DC just wish he would try a back 4 against weaker sides at home. Think he’s the best manager we have had since Adams. Although not difficult. Crosby is a real asset. 
Hall, Hussey, Jones, Pett, Garrity and Proctor have all been great signings and at the time I thought Benning was as well. I was really impressed by everything we did in the window / season up until the Walsall game. I didn’t criticise until that point (apart from Cov and his antics). We were scoring for fun, playing great football and looking like clear contenders. 

Since then - injuries clearly noted. We have looked a shadow of that side. Even with signing what 8/9 players in January and having everyone but Conlon back. he’s a big player, but one player missing out shouldn’t be the reason that we lack any kind of creativity and that our set up is completely different to what got us to 2nd in the league. I didn’t notice earlier in the season that we based our whole gameplan on what the oppositions style is. Now it seems our entire gameplan is based on the opposition and we’re more focussed on stopping them than imposing ourselves on the game. We didn’t let sides like Accrington come and play there game. We imposed ourselves and completely battered them, same to some extent with Forest Green, especially away from home. I know they set up differently to Northampton / Tranmere. But I’d love us to go back and base our tactics on our strengths. 

I agree with this... no one is going to get everything right... DC and Flickers said that they wish they didn't have to do as much business in Jan and we all know its very hard to get right mid season as cost and prices sky rocket.

And that's why imploring people to have a long term view on this... people have been saying it would be a failure if we didn't get promoted this year. Now we can argue semantics but I do think that's the wrong word. It would be disappointing, I totally agree... but the regime cant be classed as a failure so soon.

Now some of that could be because tone is very hard to read on here... and I'm not wrapping you up in the RZ type who genuinely don't want it to be DC who is successful, but some of your posts do focus heavily on the negative... The one on the Jan signings for example... I get that was aimed at me because we have a bit of back and forth (which I quite enjoy by the way)... but sounds like you are blaming DC and Flickers for getting it wrong like they did it on purpose. But it obvious that they wouldnt have wanted to go out and do that much business in a difficult window. 

And my fear is that there are a section of fans that will feed off that negativity and start making stupid decisions around how they act at games, towards the management team and the payers... I genuinely fear we will shoot ourselves in the foot and turn against a regime that's brilliant because its not happening now now now.

It may take a couple of attempts to get out of this god forsaken league... but if DC and Flickers are improving the club (and I absolutely believe they are) then they should be afforded a few attempts to get us up. Bradford, Mansfield and Salford tell us that just because the players are great, doesn't guarantee promotion.

 

[Bycarsbill]

2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

What their manager said:

 ‘Port Vale have got some really good players. I like them. A real physicality. We have nicked a point tonight when we probably didn’t deserve to. Vale will feel aggrieved they haven’t taken the three points. Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good’. Honest words from Stockdale.

Good to see an opposition manager being objective with his post-match comments!

[Joe B]

Last point from me before I switch off from this - I was Lucas' biggest fan all season. As much as I love him, he isn't as good as people are remembering. He was oft-criticised for not making many saves either.

However, he was strolling about 30 yards out of goal and could be trusted to pass the ball out competently, which was massive and allowed us to squeeze play without fear of the long ball over the tio. It's difficult to press high when your three CBs lack pace (as all of them last night did) and the keeper lacks mobility. We saw Walker caught out once or twice.

Cass, Jones, and Lucas gave us the option of forcing the long-ball as they had the mobility to sort things out. Walker, Smith, Hall, and Holy don't. The entire team drops to prevent massive gaps between the lines opening up. The wing-backs start deeper. We fail to create.