Retained List

[Walka003]

I thought Brisley struggled a bit in a couple of the early EFL games but thereafter was quite impressive.  Wasn't he nominated for the EFL February player of the month when he got a run in the side? Wasn't a surprise that he struggled at first as he'd not had a preseason or reserve games to get up to full match fitness. A few years ago Brisley was Smith when he signed for Peterborough in The Championship. He's had a mixed career since. The Carlisle move didn't work out well for him, followed by an excellent first season at Notts County. Then fell victim to County's managerial merry-go-round and their attempt to sign the largest squad in league 2 history; along with Kewell's attempts to convert him into a midfield player. 

We won't sign a better young centrehalf than Smith because Championship clubs would be after him. Losing your better players will always leave a hole. Looking at the players currently signed, based on performances since Christmas we probably have the best group of players contracted or with contacts agreed outside the 3 automatically promoted sides in this league. With Smith leaving we'll be after 6 or 7 rather than 5 or 6 new players. If Askey gets his recruitment right there's every reason to be optimistic about 2020/21.

 

I think my choice of OK was poor in my original post, I meant steady. He is a steady player and I'm happy to have him in the squad. 

Would I prefer us to have another 20odd year old in there who we can develop? Absolutely

 

I also worry that we would be relying on a 35 year old Legge to be the lynchpin of our defence. Touchwood he's not very injury prone and hopefully that carries into this season, but he's not getting younger.

 

 

[Rampant Zebra]

8 hours ago, JRC said:

And he breaks his leg and never plays again in September! We won't compensate him for a Championship move that then never happens. There's nothing sensible about that choice. He's got 2 clubs talking to him right now, nobody knows what the position will be in 6 months.

Two clubs talking to him against a guarantee of reasonable money for the length of our contract. We don't know what will happen in one month let alone 6, change of manager at the club he signs for and he might be out of favour or not be signed at all. In these unprecedented times it seems a colossal risk to not take what is offered already. But maybe I am being too cautious. Ordinarily I would say good luck to him but timing seems wrong to gamble with his future.

[ginginator]

It is always nice to think we are losing good players (in a bad way of course, moving to a higher level). It shows we are improving in the eyes of non Vale blinkered fans. Hopefully the structure is in place to find replacements. This seasons squad performed well and one player will not be an issue. If Virgil van Dijk left Liverpool, not saying he would, then the manager would have a huge hole to fill. But that is the way it is, a replacement could improve the team. We stole Naylor and did well with Lee Mills. Nathan will probably be better with a move, so good luck to him.

 

[JRC]

2 hours ago, Walka003 said:

I think my choice of OK was poor in my original post, I meant steady. He is a steady player and I'm happy to have him in the squad. 

Would I prefer us to have another 20odd year old in there who we can develop? Absolutely

 

I also worry that we would be relying on a 35 year old Legge to be the lynchpin of our defence. Touchwood he's not very injury prone and hopefully that carries into this season, but he's not getting younger.

 

 

I think Legge's age will play a part in recruitment plans. When Smith was in the picture the centrehalf was a possible 6th signing. Without Smith we need two centrehalves. Centrehalves generally do pick up injuries and suspensions .... Smith rarely got either. You could gamble on 3 centrehalves with Smith around ... not sure you can with 2 the wrong side of 30.

[The Kalamazoo Kid]

2 hours ago, Walka003 said:

I also worry that we would be relying on a 35 year old Legge to be the lynchpin of our defence. Touchwood he's not very injury prone and hopefully that carries into this season, but he's not getting younger.

This is my concern too. In fact, I thought the same last Summer but Legge proved me wrong by being almost ever-present and excellent.

Can he do so again, being another year older and closer to retirement?

IMO, he could 'go' at any time, and I hope that Askey is looking at bringing in another centre-back that is capable of being a regular, as opposed to a young untried player, as the only other current option in Crookes doesn't fill me with confidence at all.

[TheSage]

I tend to agree in general and have made the same point before. The spine of the team is crucial and both Legge and Pope will be 35 next year and sadly losing that vital pace over a few yards as well as the sharpness and reactions of younger players. Pace is absolutely vital in the modern game and once you lose that half a yard then anyone who has ever played football will confirm that you realise it's the beginning of the end and like running in treacle. They are not there yet and I know that Pope has never been rapid but both I think have another 12 months in them. Experience and know how and having good players around you can help a lot.

Centre half wise, I'd be happy with Legge, Brisley and one other, with Crookes as a fall back. We can't carry too many players and can only play two at once.

[robf]

12 hours ago, Rampant Zebra said:

Don't forget that we paid part of his wages to play for Stafford Rangers and Torquay for two seasons as well.

You mean we sent him out on loan like we've done for dozens of players - many of whom haven't given us anything like the service Nathan Smith has. 

And what was the result of those loan moves? Port Vale got a ready made player with bags of first team experience -  one who won POTY and young POTY while on loan at Torquay so he clearly worked hard while there and those moves enabled Vale to get a defender without paying any transfer fee. 

I don't get your point - Vale have done with Nathan Smith what they do with pretty much all their players. He has never taken advantage, he has put in tons of work, he's never said a bad word and now he wants to advance his career. Not only that but he hasn't sprung it on us, it's been pretty well known that's what he wanted to do and he's played it all by the book and waited till out of contract.

I just can't understand why you want to paint him as some sort of villain other than you want him to somehow hold back his own career and aspirations back simply to benefit the Vale. 

[robf]

12 hours ago, Rampant Zebra said:

We had a squad of players who played for nothing during administration, most of whom hadn't been at the club as long as Nathan. 

What's the logic of that argument? Nathan Smith wasn't at the club at the time so he never had to make that choice. Hopefully we will never have that situation again.

[Rampant Zebra]

Just reminding everyone of the loyalty to the club of some of Nathans peers.

[dishydave]

They were paid by the administrators and would of been paid what they were owed by the new owner under the football creditors rule. So although their contracts were void they didn't lose out financially

[Rampant Zebra]

But they didn't know that at the time?

[robf]

1 hour ago, Rampant Zebra said:

Just reminding everyone of the loyalty to the club of some of Nathans peers.

They are not his "peers" if he wasn't in that squad. Are you seriously trying to suggest he is "disloyal" then?

If so, then on that note I'm going to ignore your posts on this thread as you clearly have no idea of the concept of "loyalty".

Continue to cast aspersions on him if you wish, but I would hazard a guess you're in a minority (of one) with your views. 

[JRC]

1 hour ago, TheSage said:

I tend to agree in general and have made the same point before. The spine of the team is crucial and both Legge and Pope will be 35 next year and sadly losing that vital pace over a few yards as well as the sharpness and reactions of younger players. Pace is absolutely vital in the modern game and once you lose that half a yard then anyone who has ever played football will confirm that you realise it's the beginning of the end and like running in treacle. They are not there yet and I know that Pope has never been rapid but both I think have another 12 months in them. Experience and know how and having good players around you can help a lot.

Centre half wise, I'd be happy with Legge, Brisley and one other, with Crookes as a fall back. We can't carry too many players and can only play two at once.

Its been rare we haven't had 4 recognised centrehalves and the 4th one hasn't reached double figures in terms of appearances. In the past we've been lucky that Aspin, Walsh, Pilkington and Collins have been good enough to justify a place in the team at fullback and centrehalf. I think it was 01/02 when we also got away with Matty Carragher partnering Sagi Burton for a lot of the season, although we conceded a lot of headed goals that season. We could have got away with not having Kennedy last season but that was unusual. Neither Gibbo or Montano are really equipped to play centrehalf. Its a big judgement call, in an era without loans, that Crookes is a good enough centrehalf to potentially start 10 to 15 games in such a critical position. I suspect Montano will be first choice leftback but he is quite often injured so Crookes would be expected to be required on the left quite often. We aren't blessed with players over 6 foot in other positions to offer much cover in an emergency ... maybe Pope. Its a big judgement call for Askey to make. He might only sign one initially and look at Crookes as a centrehalf and also Campbell-Gordon and Hurst at leftback during preseason before deciding on a second. He might look at bringing in a rightback who can also play in the centre as cover for Gibbo.

[soothsayer]

People keep going on about Smith not being Championship quality but watching the defending for Boro’s goals yesterday he’s better than Stoke’s current donkeys.

[robf]

3 minutes ago, JRC said:

He might look at bringing in a rightback who can also play in the centre as cover for Gibbo.

I personally think that's a good way of looking at it. If Gibbo is first-choice RB then a back-up with another string to his bow (i.e. CB cover) may be good for the player too as they're more likely to get a few games if they can cover in a couple of positions. 

We're also lucky at least in some respects that some players can cover several positions such as Montano, Worrall, Crookes etc.