4 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Guess we have needed a new boo boy since Lloyd left... pile on lads!! 

No that is the next but 10 levels of badness. I just see a player who needs time to develop in his preferred position. I remember one game with Lloyd where he did everything wrong and I will never forget it. He couldn't even manage to stand in a sensible place defensively and made runs the wrong way. It was like he was new to a football pitch and a ball. 

Edited June 25, 20205 yr by Warren

11 minutes ago, toyahw said:

No chance,. He's rubbish. He never found his way in the first place. Bloody dreadful LB and no way capable of playing in a two at CB. Totally duff in the air. Maybe as one of a three at a push? Seen all his games mate and I don't like to say it but he is one of, if not the, worst players on our books. Based on past performance.

He's really bad at everything to be honest. 

That’s very harsh. He’s far most adept with the ball at his feet for a CH than Smith. His tackling seems fine, but I’m not sure of his aerial prowess. I’m not saying he is definitely the answer, but I wouldn’t be so quick to write him off. 

 

 

 

Funny how he’s being dismissed as an average player or only league one quality just because he hasn’t signed a deal. Don’t forget we are a league two side and we need players like him to build on and around. We saw last season what a good partnership he formed with Legge and Smith got better and had a really good season IMO. Virtually ever present and chipped in with a handful of goals too, that shouldn’t be underestimated. Of course we may get someone to replace him who’s as good, but we’re potentially losing a vital cog in what Askey is building.

 

Exactly, him and Pope are just about the only reason we are still in the football league.

 

He's played 150+ league games, has hardly been out of our first team in 5 years and is still only 24.

 

We are on an upwards curve for the first time in his vale career. He will be an enormous loss coming into the new season.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Boslem's Brazil said:

That’s very harsh. He’s far most adept with the ball at his feet for a CH than Smith. His tackling seems fine, but I’m not sure of his aerial prowess. I’m not saying he is definitely the answer, but I wouldn’t be so quick to write him off. 

No he isn't. The only vaguely decent games I've seen him play were under Aspin as the left of three CB's.  I'm not writing him off. Maybe he'll come back better. But based on his Vale performances to date I wouldn't be betting my house on it.

A long shot. Definitely not one to rely on to walk into a decent team. 

 

On past recent form you wouldn't say that Crookes would be one of our centre halves for the kick-off. I too thought he was decent at times on the left of a back three under Aspin but at left back he was a bit in and out and not great at getting forward. That said he is a young lad and he was playing in a rubbish team and had a few injuries. He might be better for the experience and return stronger and wiser. Who knows? But on paper it would be Legge and Brisley who impressed me greatly after Xmas when he got his chance. I was worried about him because he hadn't played many games but he came in and did really well I thought. I would imagine that Crookes would be an alternative left back (to Monty) or a central defender in emergencies. But it's Askey who gets paid for making these decisions, not me.

It's all about opinions and that's how it should be on a football forum.

1 hour ago, PV1973 said:

Funny how he’s being dismissed as an average player or only league one quality just because he hasn’t signed a deal. Don’t forget we are a league two side and we need players like him to build on and around. We saw last season what a good partnership he formed with Legge and Smith got better and had a really good season IMO. Virtually ever present and chipped in with a handful of goals too, that shouldn’t be underestimated. Of course we may get someone to replace him who’s as good, but we’re potentially losing a vital cog in what Askey is building.

I don't think labelling a player 'a good player in a division higher than us' is dismissing him. In fact, it's a big compliment considering he's played one season at that level and got relegated. No one has called him average. 

In fact, I've seen no one dismiss him at all. Simply that, as centre halves go, he's replaceable (we went up with McDonald, Chilvers, McCombe, and Purse). There's a fair few decent centre halves out of contract (George Taft, Krystian Pearce, Cameron Burgess, Rory McArdle, Farrend Rawson to name a few), and that's just from League 2 clubs.

The only issue is is that he's now had 6 months to decide and still can't give a firm answer. Apart from that, cheers for the service and hope he does well.

Edited June 25, 20205 yr by Joe B

23 minutes ago, toyahw said:

No he isn't. The only vaguely decent games I've seen him play were under Aspin as the left of three CB's.  I'm not writing him off. Maybe he'll come back better. But based on his Vale performances to date I wouldn't be betting my house on it.

A long shot. Definitely not one to rely on to walk into a decent team. 

 

I could be completely wrong here but he seems like one of those defenders who isn’t big enough and nasty enough to be a centre half and too immobile to be a left back. Preseason will be when he gets his chance to prove himself I think. 

3 minutes ago, Joe B said:

I don't think labelling a player 'a good player in a division higher than us' is dismissing him. In fact, it's a big compliment considering he's played one season at that level and got relegated. No one has called him average. 

In fact, I've seen no one dismiss him at all. Simply that, as centre halves go, he's replaceable (we went up with McDonald, Chilvers, McCombe, and Purse).

The only issue is is that he's now had 6 months to decide and still can't give a firm answer. Apart from that, cheers for the service and hope he does well.

Just read through page ten and how good and consistent he’s been for us had been quickly dismissed and forgotten about. The reality is that if clubs higher up rate him and want him then we have no chance of competing with them. Of course we may still be able to get a decent replacement. I’m not completely convinced that within the squad that Brisley and Crookes are adequate replacements so we’ll have to buy someone. We should have been prepared for his leaving long before now, the fact he hadn’t signed the contract speaks volumes. 

21 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

I could be completely wrong here but he seems like one of those defenders who isn’t big enough and nasty enough to be a centre half and too immobile to be a left back. Preseason will be when he gets his chance to prove himself I think. 

I don't want to bash the guy mate.  I'm not a boo boy. I hope it all comes good. But on the evidence I have seen he's lacking in all departments and to be honest a conference player at best. Now please do not get me wrong, I would love him to be a great success at Vale. I'd love to have eat my words.  But I would not have him pencilled in as a direct swap for Smithy. Brisly can come in there as he showed. 

But we'd need a solid bloke to come in next to Legge as cover. Can be done. But Crookes is not that man at this time. In my opinion.

Edited June 25, 20205 yr by toyahw

46 minutes ago, TheSage said:

On past recent form you wouldn't say that Crookes would be one of our centre halves for the kick-off. I too thought he was decent at times on the left of a back three under Aspin but at left back he was a bit in and out and not great at getting forward. That said he is a young lad and he was playing in a rubbish team and had a few injuries. He might be better for the experience and return stronger and wiser. Who knows? But on paper it would be Legge and Brisley who impressed me greatly after Xmas when he got his chance. I was worried about him because he hadn't played many games but he came in and did really well I thought. I would imagine that Crookes would be an alternative left back (to Monty) or a central defender in emergencies. But it's Askey who gets paid for making these decisions, not me.

It's all about opinions and that's how it should be on a football forum.

Very true Sage. Very true. Would not argue with a word you said there mate.

I rate Smith, and, barring injury, his best years should be in front of him.  I think he's shown great improvement this season and will step up a division easily.  Two divisions?  Who knows.  The key thing is that even those posters who are being less than positive would have to agree that his name would be one of the first on the team sheets surely?  You know what you're getting with the lad, which cannot be said of any new signing.  People mention his height but I can't remember anyone dominating him for 90 minutes this season.  Having said all this, we're lucky to have a ready made replacement in Brisley, plus we should be in a good position to bring in a decent CB out of the pool of out of contract players.

He goes with my thanks and best wishes.

11 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

 People mention his height but I can't remember anyone dominating him for 90 minutes this season. 

Three seasons mate, can't remember him being bested by a striker. Got a good leap on him. All elbows and stuff but gets away with it. The master of fouling and getting away with it. Which is a skill. I really hope he stays. If not, so it goes.

At the end of the day, it is interesting what Pope says about him.  For an attacker he's a right pain.

Edited June 25, 20205 yr by toyahw

Nathan should be able to make the jump in level. The issue is sometimes it is better to move up with a team (promotion). To do it solo, can be a step too quick. I know, I won League 2 and the EFL Trophy on Football Manager, League 1 is harder 😁😁

8 hours ago, toyahw said:

Three seasons mate, can't remember him being bested by a striker. Got a good leap on him. All elbows and stuff but gets away with it. The master of fouling and getting away with it. Which is a skill. I really hope he stays. If not, so it goes.

At the end of the day, it is interesting what Pope says about him.  For an attacker he's a right pain.

Have to slightly disagree there. His opening season after his debut he was exceptional in a relegated team. As with everything else at the club Smith sank into a bit of a malaise and lost his form completely. Not unexpected for one so inexperienced and the crisis at the club. 

He got absolutely rinsed against Lincoln in the cup and was duly dropped for a few games. At times my personal opinion was he was better suited to a higher division as I thought journeymen lower league forwards had his number. Rhead , Akinde, Hanson , that type of player seemed to bully him. 

He has stood up to that and along with everything else at the club has improved and if anything he is better than his opening season. 

Big loss if he goes, irreplaceable he is not. 

As others have alluded to CH is a position a lot easier to fill than a striker or goal scoring midfielder ( Jake Taylor ) 

14 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

Have to slightly disagree there. His opening season after his debut he was exceptional in a relegated team. As with everything else at the club Smith sank into a bit of a malaise and lost his form completely. Not unexpected for one so inexperienced and the crisis at the club. 

He got absolutely rinsed against Lincoln in the cup and was duly dropped for a few games. At times my personal opinion was he was better suited to a higher division as I thought journeymen lower league forwards had his number. Rhead , Akinde, Hanson , that type of player seemed to bully him. 

He has stood up to that and along with everything else at the club has improved and if anything he is better than his opening season. 

Big loss if he goes, irreplaceable he is not. 

As others have alluded to CH is a position a lot easier to fill than a striker or goal scoring midfielder ( Jake Taylor ) 

Overall when you consider how many games he’s played I don’t think there’s been that many bad ones. I know that fans like to focus on negatives rather than positives, but when you look back at his time here since he broke into the team there’s been more good / steady personal performances than outright bad ones. That’s why he’s getting himself a move.