General Erection - 12th December 2019

[geosname]

Having read a few comments on the Labour manifesto it seems jezza is ahead in the vote buying stakes.....

Grab the young with free tuition.... bit vague on existing debt.

Grab the nearly pensioners by not raising the pension age.

Grab the anti hierarchy by scrapping the house of lords..... but doesn't know when.

Grab the renters by capping rents and better control of standards.

Keeping trident.... no idea why.

About as far as I got but I'm sure other groups will be targeted.... unemployed, pensioners, disabled etc etc.

Over to the Tories to grab them back?

[philpvfc]

But we all know manifestos are a pack of lies.

i do agree with not raising the pension age (won’t affect me either way)

keeping Trident (Corbyn back tracked on this)

I don’t agree with free tuition, it was a Labour Government that first introduced charges. Caps on renting would never work but maybe there should be more regulation. Don’t like the House of Lords so if it can be scrapped then great.

[mr.hobblesworth]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/21/whats-in-the-labour-party-manifesto

Quote

 

Health

• Labour’s big policy is a promise to increase spending on the NHS by an average 4.3% a year.

• The party’s base will be hugely cheered by a pledge to end and reverse privatisation in the NHS in the next parliament and reinstate the responsibilities of the health secretary to provide a comprehensive and universal healthcare system.

• Free annual NHS dental checkups would be available to all.

Brexit

• Labour would rip up Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, negotiate a new one with the EU within three months, and then put the deal to a referendum within six months of coming to power.

Immigration

• Labour has come up with a compromise on immigration. It would continue with free movement of people with the EU if the UK votes to remain in a second referendum. If it chooses to leave, immigration rights would be negotiable under a deal, but the party recognises the benefits that free movement has brought.

• It pledges to end indefinite detention and close two detention centres – Yarl’s Wood and Brook House – which falls short of the party’s conference motion in favour of shutting all detention centres.

Education and early years

• Labour is sticking with its pledge to scrap tuition fees, the flagship policy from its 2017 manifesto.

• Free schools and academies will be brought back under the control of local authorities and communities.

• The party is promising to close the tax loopholes enjoyed by private schools and will ask the Social Justice Commission to advise on integrating private schools into the state system. 

• All two, three, and four-years-olds would get 30 hours of free nursery care a week and paid maternity leave would be extended to 12 months.

Economy

• A new £400bn “national transformation fund” funded by borrowing will invest in infrastructure and low-carbon technology. There would be a mandate to lend in line with climate goals and productivity.

• Public ownership of the railways, broadband infrastructure, postal services, energy utilities and water, paid for by issuing government bonds.

• Free full-fibre broadband for all by 2030.

Tax and pay

• A windfall tax on oil and gas companies raising £11bn, based on their contribution to climate change since 1996.

• An increase in income tax for those earning more than £80,000.

• Reversing corporation tax cuts made since 2010.

• A living wage of £10 an hour for all workers over the age of 15.

Environment

• Labour is launching a “new green deal” under which it would aim to achieve the “substantial majority” of the UK’s emissions reductions by 2030. This is a watering down of the party’s conference motion that targeted net-zero emissions by 2030.

Social policy

• Labour will introduce A Right to Food to end “food bank Britain”. It would aim to halve food bank usage within a year and remove the need for them altogether in three years.

• The party would scrap universal credit – the controversial welfare system brought in by the Tories that has caused benefit delays and hardship..

• An end to raising the retirement age beyond 66, and maintaining the triple lock on pensions.

Crime and justice

• Labour would recruit 2,000 more police officers than the Conservatives and restore prison officer numbers, reversing cuts since 2010.

Foreign policy and defence

• Labour would commit to spending at least 2% of GDP on defence and initiate a strategic defence and security review.

Housing

• Labour would embark on a massive housebuilding programme of social housing, creating more than a million homes in a decade.

• A new national levy on second homes used as holiday homes to help deal with the homelessness crisis.

• Cities would get the power to impose rent caps and other controls.

Constitution

• Labour would work to abolish the House of Lords and replace it with a senate.

• Tighter rules on lobbying and stopping MPs from having second jobs, with limited exceptions.

Transport

• Labour would give all councils powers and resources to control bus services – with under 25s riding for free

• Renationalise rail – and ensure a safety-trained crew member as well as a driver on every train

Energy

• A £250bn Green Transformation Fund to help put the UK on track for a net zero carbon energy system within the 2030s by investing in clean energy

• Upgrade 27m homes to the highest energy-efficiency standards to eliminate fuel poverty, and save £417 on each annual domestic energy bill by 2030

• Nationalise regional energy networks and the Big Six energy under a UK National Energy Agency responsible for ‘decarbonising’ energy

• A permanent ban on fracking

 

And ^that^ is why we needed a Corbyn-led Labour Party. So much to be enthused about there and everything clearly costed, even down to including things like "behavioural response" to increased rates of income tax (i.e., dodging/offshoring).

[For Us All]

18 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

The only embarrassing thing is you trying to draw a false equivalency between that and the tories' deception last night. So far we've had doctored videos, bribing of opposition and now deliberately misleading the electorate. Classy.

Whereas Labour run Plymouth Council have registered 850 students without permission,including 247 17-year olds who are too young to vote.Parents have said that their students had received polling cards at their addresses in university towns despite never requesting to vote.

Another clear sign of Labour desperately trying to get the youngsters to vote.You can see why though,half of them have never lived through a Labour goverment and the other half have never heard of Lenin or Mao Zedong?

[philpvfc]

I’ve seen on social media Labour members promoting elderly people to allow their grandchildren to use their votes as they are the future even if under 18. Add that to the students gaining 2 votes and being promoted through some student unions. 

[Fosse69]

14 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Whereas Labour run Plymouth Council have registered 850 students without permission,including 247 17-year olds who are too young to vote.Parents have said that their students had received polling cards at their addresses in university towns despite never requesting to vote.

Another clear sign of Labour desperately trying to get the youngsters to vote.You can see why though,half of them have never lived through a Labour goverment and the other half have never heard of Lenin or Mao Zedong?

I would have thought all parties would be trying to get everyone to vote if eligible, depth of education is not a requirement of eligibility.

[cheshirevaliant]

I don't think the issue is what Labour are saying, Mr H. I think the issue is who is saying it. Corbyn unfortunately will never appeal to the demographics that he needs to appeal to in order to win an election. I voted for him/Labour in 2017 and I like the look of much of the headline bits of the manifesto (let's be honest, the manifestos on all sides aren't worth the paper they are written on by 13 December) but a bloke who cannot lead his party effectively cannot lead the country effectively. 

[mr.hobblesworth]

Couldn't you argue the fault lies with the PLP rather than Corbyn? What's he supposed to do when there's a detritus of Blairites actively undermining him since the second he was elected as leader? I do understand what you mean but I'd place policy foremost.

[Fosse69]

2 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

I’ve seen on social media Labour members promoting elderly people to allow their grandchildren to use their votes as they are the future even if under 18. Add that to the students gaining 2 votes and being promoted through some student unions. 

On one of those fake sites? Proxy votes are legal in any case, how many students would have votes in 2 marginal seats and then bother to travel? 

[philpvfc]

They can vote from their home town and where they are at University, very easily by postal vote for the one. Illegal but it is going on.

[cheshirevaliant]

16 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Couldn't you argue the fault lies with the PLP rather than Corbyn? What's he supposed to do when there's a detritus of Blairites actively undermining him since the second he was elected as leader? I do understand what you mean but I'd place policy foremost.

In an ideal world, yes. However, there are substantially more Blairites around the country than socialists, hence why Blair was very successful at winning elections and socialists, in the main, haven't been. Having principles is nice but bugger all use if you are permanently in opposition. I hope one day someone can come along with Blair's election winning skills and ability to appeal to the majority and link them with Corbyn's/modern Labour's ideas. I would definitely vote for that. As it is, I can't see me voting to make Corbyn PM as I don't believe he is a great leader. Although, it makes the square root of no difference if you vote anything other than Tory in Congleton, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over my lost vote.  

[Bycarsbill]

2 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/21/whats-in-the-labour-party-manifesto

And ^that^ is why we needed a Corbyn-led Labour Party. So much to be enthused about there and everything clearly costed, even down to including things like "behavioural response" to increased rates of income tax (i.e., dodging/offshoring).

Looks even more of a "longest suicide note" in history than Michael Foot's in the 80's! I'm delighted with the Labour 'wish list' it's pure fantasy, but (God forbid) if they ever do get in although as an 'elder staesman' I shall be very pleased to receive all the freebies and lovely gifts that Corbyn & McDonnell have promised to bestow upon people of my generation.  The problem for younger voters is that they will very clearly be the ones to pay for all this largesse--after all there's no such thing as a 'free lunch'!

[Fosse69]

1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

They can vote from their home town and where they are at University, very easily by postal vote for the one. Illegal but it is going on.

Any facts?

[Jacko51]

1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

They can vote from their home town and where they are at University, very easily by postal vote for the one. Illegal but it is going on.

Electronic voting is the answer. But then you get hacked by Russians!!

[Fosse69]

11 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

Looks even more of a "longest suicide note" in history than Michael Foot's in the 80's! I'm delighted with the Labour 'wish list' it's pure fantasy, but (God forbid) if they ever do get in although as an 'elder staesman' I shall be very pleased to receive all the freebies and lovely gifts that Corbyn & McDonnell have promised to bestow upon people of my generation.  The problem for younger voters is that they will very clearly be the ones to pay for all this largesse--after all there's no such thing as a 'free lunch'!

Maybe if a costed Tory manifesto is published a comparison of where each parties` money trees are located.