the Three Musketeers

[JOHNNYAITCH]

You missed the point, a majority of UK muslims (52%) believe homosexuality in the UK should be made illegal, in addition presumablly 30% of muslims couldn't make up their minds but however you look at it a majority (52-82%) of UK muslims believe it should be illegal (compared to 5% of the general UK population), hence the figures suggest the majority of UK muslims have an intolerant belief/attitude to homosexuality.

 

I did not miss the point at all..where did you get the 30% from? I actually said I don't dispute your figures but I don't know where this 30% 'undecided' comes from?

 

It does not alter that 5% of tens of millions is a lot of people

 

 

The discussion here is about (and it's off topic) muslims and their attitude to homosexuality not "How our legal system and western culture works".

 

The two cannot be separated as their attitudes and our reaction to them have to be seen in the context of the western legal system and western culture. Surely the point you are making is that their attitudes are at odds with our legal system and our attitudes? My point is our legal system and attitudes make what they want illegal but sholuld allow them to campaign legally for changes in the law.

 

Some Christians and atheists may find homosexuality distasteful

 

it's not case of 'may'..they do

 

but I'm unaware of any such person killing gay people in the name of god as happened in Orland in 2016, an Isalmic terror attack inspired by ISIS.

 

It was you that brought the term distasteful into this. I already stated that i din't believe that for example Christians who would like to see homosexuality made illegal would wish to punish homosexuals by killing them..I've acknowledged the reaction is completely different.

 

 

 

The LGBT community have gained "rigts and freedoms"

 

And that is fantastic

 

over a number of years in the western world and I for one would like those rights to be preserved and not challenged by some religious ideology stuck in the 7th century, I would hope you would to.

 

I've already said I hope that they fail with any challenge..what are you on about? Did you read my post?

 

 

But they have the right to mount legal challenges to the law via legal means just as anyone else in a western democracy has such rights

 

The figure is 5% of people in the general UK population think homosexuality should be illegal, big difference from 52% of muslims.

 

I know it is..but 5% of millions is still an awful lot of people..if it's 5% of 50 million it's 2.5 million people. I've already said I hope the 52% can be brought round to the same way of thinking as the 48%. Did you read my post?

 

 

It isn't just the number/% of muslims who believe that homosexuality should be illegal in the UK it is also what the Islamic punishment for it should be, death or stoning which is enshrined in the Q'ran, and sadly carried out in Orlando in 2016. I can't imagine such punishment would ever be given by a court of law in the UK for being gay but the mere thought of homosexuality being out lawed in the western world is aborent and that's from a straight guy.

 

I agree..I hope it never happens..but that doesn't alter their right via legal means to campaign for changes in the law..everyone in the Uk has the same rights (except maybe prisoners) to campaign legally for changes in the law...we should celebrate that not restrict it because we don't agree with what is being campaigned for. It is that principle that 50+ years ago allowed the successful campaigning for the legalisation of homosexuality..millions were against it (often for religious reasons) but our western culture etc which allows everyone to campaign for what they believe in meant it wasn't stopped in its tracks..we should be proud of that not seeking to restrict people from legally campaigning for what they believe in. And no I'm not saying the campaign 50+ years ago was the same as that which would be waged by Muslims now..but the principles behind it are the same.

 

Read what i've posted and it's clear I hope they never succeed in changing the law but they have the right to try. And I hope the 52% are brought round to the same way of thinking as the 48% in time.

 

I'll not continue to repeat myself..

[jimbo57]

I'll not continue to repeat myself..

 

 

Promise?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

On this particular subject on this particular thread? Oh go on then.

 

Did one of them really live on High Lane?

[jimbo57]

On this particular subject on this particular thread? Oh go on then.

 

Did one of them really live on High Lane?

 

Yes, that close to VP

[Regal Beagle]

On this particular subject on this particular thread? Oh go on then.

 

Did one of them really live on High Lane?

 

One on high lane and one lived in cobridge.

[Paul6754]

On this particular subject on this particular thread? Oh go on then.

 

I knew it!!!!.....lol.

 

JA, the following is not aimed at you in any way.

 

Apart from the obvious aweful acts being planned what frustrates me is that mega money is having to be spent to fund such surveillance/subsequent prosecutions/jail time at a time when the NHS, social services, care for the elderley etc etc need that money more than ever.

 

I accept the UK has always had it's fair share of criminals that cost society but a different and potentialy larger terrorist problem has entered the country during the last 50 years which is only going to get worse unless something different is done.

[RailwayRowdy]

I'm not even sure this radicalisation exists as it is portrayed. Of course it has all been stirred up in this country by Hamsa (Hook) and his like, but isn't it really just a small percentage of the ethnic minority using this as an excuse for their violent conduct ? I realise that it cannot be simplified in such a manner, but are they really defending their so called faith ? I just think it is bitter and twisted individuals using religion as an excuse for a fight, possibly as they feel persecuted by the indigenous British population. I used to work in Birmingham and travelled through the well documented areas of Sparkhill, Sparkbrook, Alum Rock etc. They will not integrate, but I found the older population no problem. It's the younger 2nd generation of Muslims who were actually born here who have the chip on their shoulder. And before anyone accuses me of racism, I would like to point out that the love of my life is Asian.

 

Sent from my GT-I9195I using the onevalefan mobile app

[Regal Beagle]

I'm not even sure this radicalisation exists as it is portrayed. Of course it has all been stirred up in this country by Hamsa (Hook) and his like, but isn't it really just a small percentage of the ethnic minority using this as an excuse for their violent conduct ? I realise that it cannot be simplified in such a manner, but are they really defending their so called faith ? I just think it is bitter and twisted individuals using religion as an excuse for a fight, possibly as they feel persecuted by the indigenous British population. I used to work in Birmingham and travelled through the well documented areas of Sparkhill, Sparkbrook, Alum Rock etc. They will not integrate, but I found the older population no problem. It's the younger 2nd generation of Muslims who were actually born here who have the chip on their shoulder. And before anyone accuses me of racism, I would like to point out that the love of my life is Asian.

 

Sent from my GT-I9195I using the onevalefan mobile app

 

Only complete and utter fools would call anyone racist for having an honest discussion such as this thread, and it is part of the problem. People are afraid to speak about it because they are wrongly called Nazis, Racist, Fascist etc for daring to have an opinion.

 

I do think this is a problem within Islam though. Their acts are justified (in their eyes) by literal verses in their holy book which says that apostates and homosexuals should be killed. If there were 6-7 maniacs out there who are using religion as an excuse, then why are terrorists almost exclusively islamic over the past 20-30 years?

[Fosse69]

Only complete and utter fools would call anyone racist for having an honest discussion such as this thread, and it is part of the problem. People are afraid to speak about it because they are wrongly called Nazis, Racist, Fascist etc for daring to have an opinion.

 

I do think this is a problem within Islam though. Their acts are justified (in their eyes) by literal verses in their holy book which says that apostates and homosexuals should be killed. If there were 6-7 maniacs out there who are using religion as an excuse, then why are terrorists almost exclusively islamic over the past 20-30 years?

I suppose they will argue that it is mainly Islamic countries that have been bombed over the last 20 odd years. Sort the Middle East out and maybe things will quieten down, but the sorting will take a long time. Nor does it justify terrorism.

[For Us All]

One on high lane and one lived in cobridge.

 

The enemy within.

[jimbo57]

but isn't it really just a small percentage of the ethnic minority using this as an excuse for their violent conduct ?

 

Sent from my GT-I9195I using the onevalefan mobile app

 

 

yes, I'm sure it is a small percentage, but the chaos and killing they are capable of is frightening.

Yesterday radio stoke reported that some nutter tried to smuggle a pipebomb on a plane at Manchester airport. - just imagine if he;d got away with it

[bookworm]

http://time.com/4235405/donald-trump-pig-blood-muslims-story/

 

The story is also, seemingly, ********.

 

The story is perfectly true it happened in Hawaii.

[Las Vegas Vale]

On this particular subject on this particular thread? Oh go on then.

 

Did one of them really live on High Lane?

 

Yes and worked in the Kismet

[FATBOYSTEVE]

One on high lane and one lived in cobridge.

 

And not to forget several in Bankhall rd!

[jjvale_03]

You missed the point, a majority of UK muslims (52%) believe homosexuality in the UK should be made illegal, in addition presumablly 30% of muslims couldn't make up their minds but however you look at it a majority (52-82%) of UK muslims believe it should be illegal (compared to 5% of the general UK population), hence the figures suggest the majority of UK muslims have an intolerant belief/attitude to homosexuality.

 

 

 

The discussion here is about (and it's off topic) muslims and their attitude to homosexuality not "How our legal system and western culture works". Some Christians and atheists may find homosexuality distasteful but I'm unaware of any such person killing gay people in the name of god as happened in Orland in 2016, an Isalmic terror attack inspired by ISIS.

 

 

 

The LGBT community have gained "rigts and freedoms" over a number of years in the western world and I for one would like those rights to be preserved and not challenged by some religious ideology stuck in the 7th century, I would hope you would to.

 

 

 

The figure is 5% of people in the general UK population think homosexuality should be illegal, big difference from 52% of muslims.

 

 

 

It isn't just the number/% of muslims who believe that homosexuality should be illegal in the UK it is also what the Islamic punishment for it should be, death or stoning which is enshrined in the Q'ran, and sadly carried out in Orlando in 2016. I can't imagine such punishment would ever be given by a court of law in the UK for being gay but the mere thought of homosexuality being out lawed in the western world is aborent and that's from a straight guy.

 

Discussion over. Great post.