the Three Musketeers

[jimbo57]

That was close, and one of them lived on high Lane.

[valesince83]

He went my old school . Saw him knocking about but didn't speak to him , what with them , and the guy in tunstall it's getting very close to home

 

 

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[FATBOYSTEVE]

He went my old school . Saw him knocking about but didn't speak to him , what with them , and the guy in tunstall it's getting very close to home

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using onevalefan

 

Not to mention those living on bank hall road done for producing and distributing radical leaflets

[Warren]

The three musketeers is a fictional story of heroes. These guys saw themselves as heroes in their minds but are far from it. We should just call them Islamist terrorists. The continued use of the fictional title facilitates their embedding in history and easy reference in discussion which can motivate others. As an example in the world of good guys, Port Vale is an enduring name, but most players long forgotten. We want these Islamist terrorists to suffer in prison and be forgotten in the rest of the world as quickly as possible.

[Regal Beagle]

Just goes to show how big a problem radical islam is.

 

A handful of actual jihadis are the top of the pyramid. You then have people directly assisting them. Then people who support them. Then people who have knowledge of them and do nothing.

 

What about people who don't actively support terror but think that apostates or gays should be killed? I'd call that radical too. It could be 10s of thousands of people.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Just goes to show how big a problem radical islam is.

 

A handful of actual jihadis are the top of the pyramid. You then have people directly assisting them. Then people who support them. Then people who have knowledge of them and do nothing.

 

What about people who don't actively support terror but think that apostates or gays should be killed? I'd call that radical too. It could be 10s of thousands of people.

 

There are 1000s of people from all backgrounds in the UK who think gays should be killed.

 

We tread a fine line when we start criminalising people because of what they think as opposed to what they do. Obviously we do have to have laws to protect people from those that have more dubious thoughts (dubious as defined in law) cos their may be intent and unacceptable risk but I'm always wary of criminalising thoughts/opinions/views.

[Regal Beagle]

There are 1000s of people from all backgrounds in the UK who think gays should be killed.

 

We tread a fine line when we start criminalising people because of what they think as opposed to what they do. Obviously we do have to have laws to protect people from those that have more dubious thoughts (dubious as defined in law) cos their may be intent and unacceptable risk but I'm always wary of criminalising thoughts/opinions/views.

 

I absolutely agree that thought crimes should be treated with extreme caution.

 

But I do think that the risk of terror attacks is there to see, and the network of radical islam is an iceberg, who knows how big it is under the surface. I'm not saying lets round up any muslim who isn't liberal. But we must understand why so many people hold these unacceptable views in order to prevent any more people being butchered on our streets.

[Davebrad]

That's the problem with radical islam and it is islam or why do they shout about allah as they are doing these things, it reaches out to grab the kid next door who you would not believe would say boo to a cat, or the young father who's baby son was 1 or 2 months old, the 40+ US Army officer who carried out a attack at his base...

The Manchester bombing...if these radicalised people can do that to children we can't talk to them, they will not listen, so we have got to get serious...here is a urban legend-

One important thing to remember is that Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won't even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood, etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise and doomed to hell.

Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks against the United States and it's interests by, you guessed it, Muslim extremists.

So General Pershing captured 50 of the terrorists and had them tied to posts execution style. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the, now horrified, terrorists.

The soldiers then soaked their bullets in pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad.

The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist's bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc.

They let the 50th man go. And for about the next 42 years, there was not a single terrorist attack anywhere in the world...

 

before the pc and do gooders start, its the theory I,m talking about if you let all terrorists know any who die perpetrating a act of terrorism will be buried as some recent examples have in unsacreed ground and with a bit of pork fat...so they will not go to heaven, it could just might just make them think about dieing for allah...

and before anyone starts on about that would make us as bad as them, imagine going with the police to identify your child or grand-child after a bomb attack...

Talking and being the good guy will not win this for us.

 

now give me 2mins to get my tin hat and duck down...

[cheshirevaliant]

http://time.com/4235405/donald-trump-pig-blood-muslims-story/

 

The story is also, seemingly, ********.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

That's the problem with radical islam and it is islam or why do they shout about allah as they are doing these things, it reaches out to grab the kid next door who you would not believe would say boo to a cat, or the young father who's baby son was 1 or 2 months old, the 40+ US Army officer who carried out a attack at his base...

The Manchester bombing...if these radicalised people can do that to children we can't talk to them, they will not listen, so we have got to get serious...here is a urban legend-

One important thing to remember is that Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won't even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood, etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise and doomed to hell.

Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks against the United States and it's interests by, you guessed it, Muslim extremists.

So General Pershing captured 50 of the terrorists and had them tied to posts execution style. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the, now horrified, terrorists.

The soldiers then soaked their bullets in pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad.

The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist's bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc.

They let the 50th man go. And for about the next 42 years, there was not a single terrorist attack anywhere in the world...

 

before the pc and do gooders start, its the theory I,m talking about if you let all terrorists know any who die perpetrating a act of terrorism will be buried as some recent examples have in unsacreed ground and with a bit of pork fat...so they will not go to heaven, it could just might just make them think about dieing for allah...

and before anyone starts on about that would make us as bad as them, imagine going with the police to identify your child or grand-child after a bomb attack...

Talking and being the good guy will not win this for us.

 

now give me 2mins to get my tin hat and duck down...

 

Irrespective of whether we should do it or not (I have my views on that), I don't think the would be terrorist of today would believe that we would do it or would be "brainwashed" into believing that we hadn't done it.

 

It's no deterrent if they don't believe we would do it/have done it.

[Davebrad]

Irrespective of whether we should do it or not (I have my views on that), I don't think the would be terrorist of today would believe that we would do it or would be "brainwashed" into believing that we hadn't done it.

 

It's no deterrent if they don't believe we would do it/have done it.

 

If the terrorists are being cultivated on the ideals of islam thy then have to accept that to touch pork will make them unclean and all that that entails... if we make it a creditable threat ie that we will either touch their dead bodies or if taken into custody alive the same, then it will be a deteraint, if that is not believed then make an example of one in prison and publicise what we will do to any others caught.

If we are castigated by the rest of the world fair enough but if it saves lives or even 1 life, they will soon follow our lead. As I said being the good guys does not work, we've got to be serious about our response...

[Paul6754]

There are 1000s of people from all backgrounds in the UK who think gays should be killed.

 

The proportion of UK Muslims who believe being gay should be illegal is 52% compared to 5% among the public at large. The attitude of muslims to homosexuality stems from the Qoran which muslims believe was written by god, ie it is the word of god. Being gay in a muslim country is punishable by death.

 

Homophobia is a much larger problem within the muslim community and at odds with modern western values, a comment like the above shows a lack of understanding of the issue of Islam and homosexuality. Some people in the west do find homosexulaity distasteful but the majority wouldn't agree with killing as a punishment or making it illegal, the west has moved on from those times.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

[JOHNNYAITCH]

If the terrorists are being cultivated on the ideals of islam thy then have to accept that to touch pork will make them unclean and all that that entails... if we make it a creditable threat ie that we will either touch their dead bodies or if taken into custody alive the same, then it will be a deteraint,

 

That's my point..they won't see it as a creditable threat so won't be dettered

 

if that is not believed then make an example of one in prison and publicise what we will do to any others caught.

 

They are far far better at propaganda than we are..they won't believe we actually did it or their 'elders'; will convince them we didn't actually do it

 

 

If we are castigated by the rest of the world fair enough but if it saves lives or even 1 life, they will soon follow our lead. As I said being the good guys does not work, we've got to be serious about our response...

 

So effectively anything goes if it saves one life? I can't agree with that. We can be get this done without being savages.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

The proportion of UK Muslims who believe being gay should be illegal is 52% compared to 5% among the public at large. The attitude of muslims to homosexuality stems from the Qoran which muslims believe was written by god, ie it is the word of god. Being gay in a muslim country is punishable by death.

 

I won't dispute that. So? They are entitled to their beliefs; doesn't mean they are going to go around indulging in criminal behaviour cos of those beliefs. 5% of the tens of millions of non-Muslims is an awful lot of people. I wonder what % of truly devout Christians think being gay should be illegal?

 

Homophobia is a much larger problem within the muslim community and at odds with modern western values, a comment like the above shows a lack of understanding of the issue of Islam and homosexuality.

 

Know it doesn't, it shows an understanding of how our legal system works and how western culture works..we don't generally speaking criminalise opinions/thoughts/views. There would be a lot of Christians in our prisons if we did for their thoughts and views on homosexuals.

 

Some people in the west do find homosexulaity distasteful but the majority wouldn't agree with killing as a punishment or making it illegal, the west has moved on from those times.

 

Millions of 'westerners' find homosexuality 'distasteful'...they are entitled to feel that way..but not to act upon it in contravention of the law. Muslims are perfectly entitled to campaign via legal means for the laws on homosexuality to be changed..I hope they fail in their campaigns if they do but they have the right to do so

 

 

Couldn't find UK numbers but I reckon it would be surprising how many devout Christians think homosexuality should be illegal..although they probably would not support the death penalty but that's cos they generally don't support the death penalty anyway.

 

I would hope that the 52% of Muslims who think homosexuality should be illegal can be brought round in time to the same way of thinking of the 48% who do not.....but it will take a long time and possibly several generations

[Paul6754]

I won't dispute that. So? They are entitled to their beliefs; doesn't mean they are going to go around indulging in criminal behaviour cos of those beliefs. 5% of the tens of millions of non-Muslims is an awful lot of people. I wonder what % of truly devout Christians think being gay should be illegal?

 

You missed the point, a majority of UK muslims (52%) believe homosexuality in the UK should be made illegal, in addition presumablly 30% of muslims couldn't make up their minds but however you look at it a majority (52-82%) of UK muslims believe it should be illegal (compared to 5% of the general UK population), hence the figures suggest the majority of UK muslims have an intolerant belief/attitude to homosexuality.

 

Know it doesn't, it shows an understanding of how our legal system works and how western culture works..we don't generally speaking criminalise opinions/thoughts/views. There would be a lot of Christians in our prisons if we did for their thoughts and views on homosexuals.

 

The discussion here is about (and it's off topic) muslims and their attitude to homosexuality not "How our legal system and western culture works". Some Christians and atheists may find homosexuality distasteful but I'm unaware of any such person killing gay people in the name of god as happened in Orland in 2016, an Isalmic terror attack inspired by ISIS.

 

Millions of 'westerners' find homosexuality 'distasteful'...they are entitled to feel that way..but not to act upon it in contravention of the law. Muslims are perfectly entitled to campaign via legal means for the laws on homosexuality to be changed..I hope they fail in their campaigns if they do but they have the right to do so

 

The LGBT community have gained "rigts and freedoms" over a number of years in the western world and I for one would like those rights to be preserved and not challenged by some religious ideology stuck in the 7th century, I would hope you would to.

 

Couldn't find UK numbers but I reckon it would be surprising how many devout Christians think homosexuality should be illegal..although they probably would not support the death penalty but that's cos they generally don't support the death penalty anyway.

 

The figure is 5% of people in the general UK population think homosexuality should be illegal, big difference from 52% of muslims.

 

I would hope that the 52% of Muslims who think homosexuality should be illegal can be brought round in time to the same way of thinking of the 48% who do not.....but it will take a long time and possibly several generations

 

It isn't just the number/% of muslims who believe that homosexuality should be illegal in the UK it is also what the Islamic punishment for it should be, death or stoning which is enshrined in the Q'ran, and sadly carried out in Orlando in 2016. I can't imagine such punishment would ever be given by a court of law in the UK for being gay but the mere thought of homosexuality being out lawed in the western world is aborent and that's from a straight guy.