Bradford city it can be done i.e. Season Tickets

[Mattholl]

If Smurf came out and said we're doing an offer of £150 with the aim of getting anything over 10,000 fans then yes, he'd be told he was deluded. No one, not one single person as far as I've seen, has said we would match Bradford's attendances. I've repeated on so many occasions now, we should copy the model, not the targets. Smurf has repeatedly said to people on twitter, get me 17,000 fans in the stadium and I'd charge £150. It's a pathetic reason for not doing the offer, and shows he's not the sharpest tool in the box. We need to target the number of fans that brings us in the same amount of income as we currently get charging over £300. Figure out how much income we raised last season through ST sales, price this seasons accordingly, and set a target that matches that figure. We'd then have a stadium with a lot more people in, and the potential to increase match day revenue. Over time, (again, following the Bradford model) that target can be increased. As I've said before, Bradford are now targeting 20,000. When they first set up their scheme in 08 their target was 10,000. Copy the percentage increase and set that as the benchmark, not the actual figures, as like many say, regardless of history, right now Bradford are a much bigger club than us.

 

Everything else you put I completely agree with and there's some good idea in there. I know there was a ruling recently on safe standing but I don't think we're eligible for it as we were in the Championship when the Taylor report came into force. I wish we could add safe standing some where, but we're a long way away from getting it in at VP unfortunately.

 

My issue is that I keep seeing people post about Bradford and how we're no where near their size, as though that's a reason not to go ahead with the model they operate. We need to copy the model but scale it down to our needs, and what is realistic.

 

Possibly but the Bradford model is based on them already having the fan base to service not trying to build it I think thats what people are trying to get across. We would be far more likely to copy Charlton and Brentford who have spent a long time working on their community outreach and ticket pricing to make sure they were sustainable and affordable. Lets get tickets into schools, charity projects and community centres and affordable for existing fans.

 

Shame on safe standing would be ace if we could get it back at VP

[Family Stand Terrier]

Possibly but the Bradford model is based on them already having the fan base to service not trying to build it I think thats what people are trying to get across. We would be far more likely to copy Charlton and Brentford who have spent a long time working on their community outreach and ticket pricing to make sure they were sustainable and affordable. Lets get tickets into schools, charity projects and community centres and affordable for existing fans.

 

Shame on safe standing would be ace if we could get it back at VP

 

I think we need to do those things anyway. The issue there though is that they take time to turn youngsters turning up for free into hardcore fans paying full price. The threat from Stoke is here now. Target 5,000 was the best thing V2001 ever did. We should have carried that scheme on as it was launched around the same time as Bradford. When you consider we were promoted the same season as Bradford, their attendances jumped up 40% on the previous season. Had we tried harder to retain those 6,500 ST holders from 08, as a long term project, there's every chance now (almost 10 years later) that figure would have remained constant or even increased. The fact that we attracted 12,000 fans for the Northampton game (yes it was a promotion one off) but it shows there is a potential fanbase out there, if only we could attract them regularly. That will take time, but given the fact that our prices are so similar to Stoke's, we surely have to fight back with an aggressive price structure, and an equally aggressive marketing campaign to get the fans back. Relying on a promotion campaign isn't an option, I'm 35 and can only remember 3 promotions since I've been watching us, and there are too many external factors out of our control. Price however structures are within our control, as is the way we market them. At the moment can anyone genuinely say that the club is doing enough to encourage fans back?

[JRC]

Good on you, that sounds a great number. I run a business that takes me to Manchester not Mumbai unfortunately.

 

However the language smacked of small-time thinking....and how is Bradford"selling" 10k different to Vale "scraping" 6500 sales? I'd give anything for a scraped 6500 season ticket-sales right now.

 

I'd guess we can agree on one thing, and that is that doing nothing is not an option.

 

Bradford have a much bigger customer base because of the inter city rivalry with Leeds and Bradford has a population 60,000 bigger than Stoke while only supporting one team. Teams like Charlton (Crewe and to a degree ourselves, although in our case we bought in half finished players) have been successful by retaining a relatively small core support of developing players internally, many of which are then sold on. Not sure if Bosman hasn't stopped this model from working. Vale Park in a millstone, we support a stadium which could easily have a capacity 5 times our current fan base and two and a half times any optimistic predictions. So there is a fixed cost which is unrealistic in terms of any revenue it can generate. Its also in the middle of a residential area, so not really any use for things like concerts. Where we can learn from Bradford is they have been successful at reaching out to the Asian community, which form an increasing percentage of their fan base.

[Family Stand Terrier]

Bradford have a much bigger customer base because of the inter city rivalry with Leeds and Bradford has a population 60,000 bigger than Stoke while only supporting one team. Teams like Charlton (Crewe and to a degree ourselves, although in our case we bought in half finished players) have been successful by retaining a relatively small core support of developing players internally, many of which are then sold on. Not sure if Bosman hasn't stopped this model from working. Vale Park in a millstone, we support a stadium which could easily have a capacity 5 times our current fan base and two and a half times any optimistic predictions. So there is a fixed cost which is unrealistic in terms of any revenue it can generate. Its also in the middle of a residential area, so not really any use for things like concerts. Where we can learn from Bradford is they have been successful at reaching out to the Asian community, which form an increasing percentage of their fan base.

 

I think the title of this thread is confusing people. Why, I've no idea, but you can't get away from comparing Vale with Bradford. Forget about Bradford, no one is comparing Vale with Bradford. They're bigger than us, we get it, just forget about them.

 

We need to emulate the model, it could be Leek Town's model for all I care, but scale it to something more realistic for a club our size. If we could match ST income from last season, but increase the attendance through making them cheaper, is that something you could support?

 

If we could get 6,500 after a relegation under V2001, why couldn't we try to match that again. 4,500 would be a big increase on previous seasons, and as things are going we'll do well to sell 2,000 at the current prices.

 

Do you understand the long term risk that Stoke pose? Do you see the next generation of football fans choosing Vale, or Stoke, as our fanbase increases in age, are we doing enough to encourage new and lapsed fans?

[JRC]

The first season ticket offer was novel and we'll received, but support dwindled in subsequent seasons. Demand for Port Vale season tickets is pretty inelastic which means large price changes are needed to increase sales. Even in the year it was successful attendances were below sales, the offer was so cheap a lot of occasional fans bought one. The minimum reduction would probably be to halve prices, but they then need to double sales. With the progress Stoke have made in the last 10 years my own view is that is unlikely. If they halve prices and sales only increase by 50 per cent then revenue falls.

[Timothius]

Possibly but the Bradford model is based on them already having the fan base to service not trying to build it I think thats what people are trying to get across. We would be far more likely to copy Charlton and Brentford who have spent a long time working on their community outreach and ticket pricing to make sure they were sustainable and affordable. Lets get tickets into schools, charity projects and community centres and affordable for existing fans.

 

Shame on safe standing would be ace if we could get it back at VP

 

Target 5000 was based on Bradford's mode but adapted to meet our fanbase and budget requirements. On numbers of season tickets sold, it was a success but was never continued with.

[Timothius]

Bradford have a much bigger customer base because of the inter city rivalry with Leeds and Bradford has a population 60,000 bigger than Stoke while only supporting one team. Teams like Charlton (Crewe and to a degree ourselves, although in our case we bought in half finished players) have been successful by retaining a relatively small core support of developing players internally, many of which are then sold on. Not sure if Bosman hasn't stopped this model from working. Vale Park in a millstone, we support a stadium which could easily have a capacity 5 times our current fan base and two and a half times any optimistic predictions. So there is a fixed cost which is unrealistic in terms of any revenue it can generate. Its also in the middle of a residential area, so not really any use for things like concerts. Where we can learn from Bradford is they have been successful at reaching out to the Asian community, which form an increasing percentage of their fan base.

 

We don't draw our fans from just the City of Stoke-on trent, we draw it from the surrounding Boroughs, if they are taken into account our cathcment population is not much different to Bradfords, in fact it is possibly marginally bigger. I can remember when Bradford were a smaller club than Vale with similar or smaller attendances

[Timothius]

The first season ticket offer was novel and we'll received, but support dwindled in subsequent seasons. Demand for Port Vale season tickets is pretty inelastic which means large price changes are needed to increase sales. Even in the year it was successful attendances were below sales, the offer was so cheap a lot of occasional fans bought one. The minimum reduction would probably be to halve prices, but they then need to double sales. With the progress Stoke have made in the last 10 years my own view is that is unlikely. If they halve prices and sales only increase by 50 per cent then revenue falls.

 

Support dwindled because the scheme wasn't persevered with.

[Jacko51]

Bradford's success in the second half of the 90s was under the chairmanship of Geoffrey Richmond. He eventually spent too much and the club went into admin but he always operated his ticket pricing on the basis that there was absolutely no profit in an empty seat.

[TheSage]

A modicum of success pays dividends.

Bradford have clung on to many who saw them a few years ago in higher leagues and they've had a few marvellous cup runs in recent years.

Stoke weren't getting 10k before they were propelled forward by the Icelanders and subsequently Coates and Sky.

We had a tiny bit of success in getting promotion (and scoring goals) under Adams but we failed miserably to capitalise on that success when we should have tried much harder to keep some of the fans who attended the Burton and Northampton games. A lot, as ever, were taken for granted and we missed the boat.

We've had very little to cheer about lately and it's becoming increasingly more difficult to attract young fans when SCFC can afford to give tickets away for next to nowt to watch Premiership players rather than league one journeymen.

 

I'm not an expert on sales and marketing but what I do know as a fan is that it's very easy to lose fans but a hundred times harder to win them back and until that message gets through to the person who runs the Club and we have more imaginative marketing strategies aimed largely at children then we're on a one way ticket to non league, given the state of football in 2017 and the power of Sky TV.

 

I hope I'm wrong and often folk claim not to be buying a season ticket but when the sun shines in July and the fixtures come out they often go again. However, it must be worrying that the football has been so grim at times over the past few years that we could be looking at 2k ticket holders and gates of circa 3000 if we find outselves competing with the likes of Crawley, Forest Green and Cheltenham in 2017-18.

[smithie]

Assuming our chairman still reads this site, his indifference to selling tickets is truly astounding. He seems completely unbothered if we sell 200, 2,000 or 10,000.

[Bedford Vale]

All we need is an exceptional selling point.

 

Wasn't that idea building Spitfire statues outside and calling the ground the Mitchell Stadium, once upon a time...?

[Mattholl]

Target 5000 was based on Bradford's mode but adapted to meet our fanbase and budget requirements. On numbers of season tickets sold, it was a success but was never continued with.

 

The problem is Tim that that was a long time ago and the budgets were not as high. We are not self sustaining so any scheme like this would ultimately end up with the directors loan growing. 5000 season tickets at £200 is 1million pounds which i bet is around half to a third of the budget for the year. 3000 at £350 each is 50 grand more for the club and 50 grand less the chairman needs to find from his own pocket. Whats the incentive for the chairman to do that if people are on his case constantly and want him gone? He wont see the benefit at all?

 

Be fair if you want him gone and to take a major loss on his investments, you cant ask him to put into place schemes which will benefit the person he going to sell the club to

[Mattholl]

Assuming our chairman still reads this site, his indifference to selling tickets is truly astounding. He seems completely unbothered if we sell 200, 2,000 or 10,000.

 

theres no financial benefit to the club or the chairman short term for doing this type of scheme

 

£200 x 5000 is 1,000,000

£350 x 3000 is 1,050,000

 

50 grand more for him if he keeps the current pricing(ish). Fans are talking about him leaving and forcing him out, why would he then put into place a scheme which he sees no financial benefit for him at all as its all long term gain?

[mr.hobblesworth]

Plus you'd get a marked reduction in walk-ups, which I'd imagine would more than take away any benefit gained from increased merchandise/ refreshments.