Bradford city it can be done i.e. Season Tickets

[Family Stand Terrier]

This idea of having a small mind because people are realistic over the size of vale compared to Bradford is crazy. They are a large club. Have been for years.

 

I think we need to do something though I doubt it's as simple as lash prices n try to get enough fans in to over the short fall. We need to attract students and children. I'd give ST tickets to school kids and offer an incentive to an accompanying adult. Students I'd charge a tiny fee. We need fill the ground and take a short term hit for potential long term again. Walsall have a good scheme for youngsters.

 

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We don't need to match Bradford, we need to emulate their offer. We need to increase our attendances to at least match previous seasons income. I don't see anyone arguing over who are the bigger club it's a no brainer. Once we get more fans in we then need to increase match day income. Surely any high flying international businessman knows that.

 

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[Timothius]

Bradford are bigger than us now, and have been for probably the last 20 years or so. However, the point here is not about matching them, it's about emulating their model. The current method of freezing season tickets has seen a decline in sales over the last 4 years. Yes, if the product on the pitch is good then more people will turn up, that's true, but that's not to say that that's the only approach the club should be taking. We've had one promotion since 1994, so it's not good enough to just throw all of our eggs into that basket and just hope the fans return. The club has to do more.

 

The model Bradford implemented meant their support went from 8k to 13k. Since then it dipped to 10k/11k but following promotion has steadily increased to the point they're now targeting 20k.

 

In our first season of target 5,000 we sold 6,500. We didn't repeat it again. Now almost 10 years later we're down to 3,500 regulars. We have to look at this as a long term plan to negate the risk posed to us from Stoke. We can't expect them to change their prices or hope they fall out of the prem, we need to grow the next crop of Vale fans with attractive prices. Bradford started off targeting 10,000, 10 years later it's 20,000. If we'd have stuck with our scheme over the years, what's to say we couldn't be targeting 10,000? (before anyone laughs at that figure, imagine how Bradford fans would have laughed at the thought of targeting 20k 10 years ago) If we can sell 6,500 after relegation, how many do you think we'd have sold at that price after promotion?

 

As our owners since then haven't had the energy to bother with these incentives, we have to go back to square one. Such is the damage caused by Smurf, I think our initial target needs to be lower. Next season we'd do well to shift 2,000 at the price they are. We should try to sell 4,000 at £180. Then over time keep on promoting it, shout about the scheme every year, and keep increasing the target.

 

I honestly think the threat to the club is so severe that this is no longer up for debate. It simply has to happen.

 

There was a copy of the premiership results in the paper at the weekend from a few years back. Bradford had played Man Utd on that day and the gate was just over 18000, they get more now against the likes of us in league 1.

[Fosse69]

There was a copy of the premiership results in the paper at the weekend from a few years back. Bradford had played Man Utd on that day and the gate was just over 18000, they get more now against the likes of us in league 1.

Possibly a sell-out, the ground is bigger, now 25k, than it was in those days. Still impressive gates they get.

[Timothius]

Possibly a sell-out, the ground is bigger, now 25k, than it was in those days. Still impressive gates they get.

 

You miss my point. Their gates are great, they wouldn't be this great if they hadn't run their season ticket promotions for the past 10 years or so

[Fosse69]

You miss my point. Their gates are great, they wouldn't be this great if they hadn't run their season ticket promotions for the past 10 years or so

Of course I admire their ST promotion, but your point was a Man U gate.

[Timothius]

Of course I admire their ST promotion, but your point was a Man U gate.

 

My point was they now get better gates in L1 than they got against Man Utd in the prem. This is down to their ticket prices and promotion of their scheme

[smithie]

This idea of having a small mind because people are realistic over the size of vale compared to Bradford is crazy. They are a large club. Have been for years.

 

I think we need to do something though I doubt it's as simple as lash prices n try to get enough fans in to over the short fall. We need to attract students and children. I'd give ST tickets to school kids and offer an incentive to an accompanying adult. Students I'd charge a tiny fee. We need fill the ground and take a short term hit for potential long term again. Walsall have a good scheme for youngsters.

 

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John Rudge didn't settle for us being "realistic" about how big we were and what we could achieve. How unrealistic of Yeovil, Burton and now Fleetwood to think big and actually achieve something.

[who was markin him?]

John Rudge didn't settle for us being "realistic" about how big we were and what we could achieve. How unrealistic of Yeovil, Burton and now Fleetwood to think big and actually achieve something.

There's a difference between realism and ridiculous. Over night we won't be as big as Bradford will we? John rudge was a good manager given time to do his job.

 

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[TJHValiant]

I don't buy this big club Bradford rubbish. Ten years ago, Bradford were struggling in league 2, while we were still in league 1 wondering when champ football may return, until the dire relegation season.

 

Historically aside from their two seasons in the prem, we have been about par and if the club was well run, with good transport and community initiatives we could easily be as big in attendances, even with Stoke around.

[rsb]

On season ticket prices what about these up to 10 years old free, 11 yrs to 25yrs £100, 26yrs + £200, family season ticket about £250/275 up to 4 members. I know I have not included the 62+ in this so all adults pay the same price the 62+ will save £65 on this season price anyway, by the way I will be 67 in june.

[Fosse69]

I don't buy this big club Bradford rubbish. Ten years ago, Bradford were struggling in league 2, while we were still in league 1 wondering when champ football may return, until the dire relegation season.

 

Historically aside from their two seasons in the prem, we have been about par and if the club was well run, with good transport and community initiatives we could easily be as big in attendances, even with Stoke around.

We have not averaged above 10k since the 60s, when football was cheaper and had far less competition, when did we play in the Prem and League Cup final? Or even win the FA cup? We can do better than at present but Bradford City are a bigger club. Even with a 25k stadium they are thinking of moving to a bigger ground and sharing with the Bulls.

[Mattholl]

lets be honest if the chairman came out and said we were going copy Bradfords model fans would be going nuts saying how unrealistic it was and he was deluded etc.. We don't have anywhere near the attendances of bradford and traditionally that has always been the case regardless of the league they are in. We need to Strike a happy medium between the price being a good offer and giving the club enough money to make a decent pot to give to the manager next year regardless of the league we are in.

 

Personally i think they should start to make offers for the two main traditional stands with the lower facilities (Bycars and Paddock). £195 season tickets in those two areas before May 30th. £250 in the Lorne Street. £20 under 12s ticket with a season ticket purchase and £100 under 16 season ticket with any adult season ticket purchased. If we sell more than 5000 season tickets then everyone who purchased one before the deadline gets a 50% off voucher for the shop valid until Dec 24th 2017. Season ticket holders also get programmes for £2.

 

Heres a shout though. Close the family stand and put in safe terracing, £150 season tickets in that area limited to the capacity (maybe 150)(worst facilities with little cover and standing too).Move the family stand to the new side of the Lorne Street and create a buffer between the away fans and home fans naturally so you don't need police (well hopefully not)

 

Matchday offers on food- pie and a pint for £5, two for £8 or family deal for £12 (2 sausage rolls, 2 pies, 4 soft drinks). This promotes people grouping their spend together but also drive sales. If i can encourage a friend to chip in 4 quid and we both get pie and a pint, when maybe they were only having a pint for £3 anyway. Works at a lot of sports grounds now with item combo deals etc..

 

Matchday ticket offers- walk up to ticket office 2 adult tickets for £35, (2 for £30 in the standing area). family ticket 2 adults and two under 16s £40 (£50 with meal deal). Nothing we do supports group or inclusive purchases to drive additional attendees. If I can get my ticket cheaper if my mate comes with me i'm more likely to get him to come with me. If its the same price i'm not likely to push them to come to the game.

 

If you were to put these types of offers on and the fans didnt take them up on it then the blame lies with the fans for not supporting the club end of story.

[Heatwave]

I don't buy this big club Bradford rubbish. Ten years ago, Bradford were struggling in league 2, while we were still in league 1 wondering when champ football may return, until the dire relegation season.

 

Historically aside from their two seasons in the prem, we have been about par and if the club was well run, with good transport and community initiatives we could easily be as big in attendances, even with Stoke around.

 

Struggling in L2 they might have been, but they had a spell in the Prem in recent memory. That kind of success is what brings you strength in depth, attendances wise.

 

Let's just imagine what would happen to attendances if we had an owner who bankrolled us to the Prem a la Bournemouth. Suddenly we'd be rivals to Stoke again, not also rans. That alone would be buying us gates, if not quite as big as Stoke (don't forget they've had decades in the top flight), then fairly close to. Vale's rivalry with Stoke in what is now called the Championship didn't last long enough to build the level of traditional support Stoke can call on but it was approaching it.

 

If we're going to prosper that's the kind of thing we should be aiming for - unfortunately I can't see where someone with that kind of money would come from.

[Mattholl]

Struggling in L2 they might have been, but they had a spell in the Prem in recent memory. That kind of success is what brings you strength in depth, attendances wise.

 

Let's just imagine what would happen to attendances if we had an owner who bankrolled us to the Prem a la Bournemouth. Suddenly we'd be rivals to Stoke again, not also rans. That alone would be buying us gates, if not quite as big as Stoke (don't forget they've had decades in the top flight), then fairly close to. Vale's rivalry with Stoke in what is now called the Championship didn't last long enough to build the level of traditional support Stoke can call on but it was approaching it.

 

If we're going to prosper that's the kind of thing we should be aiming for - unfortunately I can't see where someone with that kind of money would come from.

 

Bradford recent attendance averages

 

2016 5 3 49 18.090 29 1 1 AMC

2015 7 3 51 13.353 41 QF 3 AMC

2014 11 3 55 14.121 42 1 1 AMC

2013 7 4 75 10.322 46 2 Final AMC QF

2012 18 4 86 10.171 48 3 1 AMC QF

2011 18 4 86 11.128 47 1 2 AMC

2010 14 4 82 11.423 45 1 1 AMC QF

2009 9 4 77 12.704 45 2 1 AMC

2008 10 4 78 13.694 40 2 1 AMC

2007 22 3 66 8.694 48 2 1 AMC

2006 11 3 55 8.265 48 2 2 AMC

2005 11 3 55 8.839 47 1 1 AMC

2004 23 2 43 11.377 42 3 1

2003 19 2 39 12.501 40 3 1

2002 15 2 35 15.489 32 3 3

2001 20 1 20 18.511 24 3 3 IT SF

2000 17 1 17 18.030 24 4 3

1999 2 2 22 14.298 32 4 3

1998 13 2 33 15.564 28 3 1

1997 21 2 41 12.925 29 5 1

1996 6 3 50 5.708 54 3 3 AMC

1995 14 3 60 6.152 51 1 2 AMC

1994 7 3 53 6.395 51 1 2 AMC

1993 10 3 56 6.581 48 2 1 AMC

1992 16 3 62 6.115 53 2 2 AMC

1991 8 3 52 6.644 47 1 3 AMC

1990 23 2 43 8.777 39 3 2 FMC

1989 14 2 34 10.524 29 4 QF FMC

1988 4 2 25 12.906

 

bit of a blip from 1990-1997 but pretty much 10000 plus every other year

[Family Stand Terrier]

lets be honest if the chairman came out and said we were going copy Bradfords model fans would be going nuts saying how unrealistic it was and he was deluded etc.. We don't have anywhere near the attendances of bradford and traditionally that has always been the case regardless of the league they are in. We need to Strike a happy medium between the price being a good offer and giving the club enough money to make a decent pot to give to the manager next year regardless of the league we are in.

 

Personally i think they should start to make offers for the two main traditional stands with the lower facilities (Bycars and Paddock). £195 season tickets in those two areas before May 30th. £250 in the Lorne Street. £20 under 12s ticket with a season ticket purchase and £100 under 16 season ticket with any adult season ticket purchased. If we sell more than 5000 season tickets then everyone who purchased one before the deadline gets a 50% off voucher for the shop valid until Dec 24th 2017. Season ticket holders also get programmes for £2.

 

Heres a shout though. Close the family stand and put in safe terracing, £150 season tickets in that area limited to the capacity (maybe 150)(worst facilities with little cover and standing too).Move the family stand to the new side of the Lorne Street and create a buffer between the away fans and home fans naturally so you don't need police (well hopefully not)

 

Matchday offers on food- pie and a pint for £5, two for £8 or family deal for £12 (2 sausage rolls, 2 pies, 4 soft drinks). This promotes people grouping their spend together but also drive sales. If i can encourage a friend to chip in 4 quid and we both get pie and a pint, when maybe they were only having a pint for £3 anyway. Works at a lot of sports grounds now with item combo deals etc..

 

Matchday ticket offers- walk up to ticket office 2 adult tickets for £35, (2 for £30 in the standing area). family ticket 2 adults and two under 16s £40 (£50 with meal deal). Nothing we do supports group or inclusive purchases to drive additional attendees. If I can get my ticket cheaper if my mate comes with me i'm more likely to get him to come with me. If its the same price i'm not likely to push them to come to the game.

 

If you were to put these types of offers on and the fans didnt take them up on it then the blame lies with the fans for not supporting the club end of story.

 

If Smurf came out and said we're doing an offer of £150 with the aim of getting anything over 10,000 fans then yes, he'd be told he was deluded. No one, not one single person as far as I've seen, has said we would match Bradford's attendances. I've repeated on so many occasions now, we should copy the model, not the targets. Smurf has repeatedly said to people on twitter, get me 17,000 fans in the stadium and I'd charge £150. It's a pathetic reason for not doing the offer, and shows he's not the sharpest tool in the box. We need to target the number of fans that brings us in the same amount of income as we currently get charging over £300. Figure out how much income we raised last season through ST sales, price this seasons accordingly, and set a target that matches that figure. We'd then have a stadium with a lot more people in, and the potential to increase match day revenue. Over time, (again, following the Bradford model) that target can be increased. As I've said before, Bradford are now targeting 20,000. When they first set up their scheme in 08 their target was 10,000. Copy the percentage increase and set that as the benchmark, not the actual figures, as like many say, regardless of history, right now Bradford are a much bigger club than us.

 

Everything else you put I completely agree with and there's some good ideas in there. I know there was a ruling recently on safe standing but I don't think we're eligible for it as we were in the Championship when the Taylor report came into force. I wish we could add safe standing some where, but we're a long way away from getting it in at VP unfortunately.

 

My issue is that I keep seeing people post about Bradford and how we're no where near their size, as though that's a reason not to go ahead with the model they operate. We need to copy the model but scale it down to our needs, and what is realistic.