A 2nd referendum

[cheshirevaliant]

That's exactly what Brexit has done and addressed. We can (soon) hold the people in charge to account properly whereas we have not been able to do that for years.

 

And I also don't think the EU is an external force, and that is the problem that resulted in the majority voting to leave.

 

In reality, how successful will holding MPs to account be under the current electoral system? Not an argument for or against Brexit by the way.

[Davebrad]

This line made me smile...

 

 

 

From the days of the Vikings Briton's financial and other resources have been a rich vein for quite a few of its European neighbours, even in the days of the Crusades Briton's wealth was leaking away in the name of Holy Wars.

 

I sometimes wonder if that is still the situation today i.e. do they really want a European Member, or just its 'money'

 

As 29/3/17 is the trigger day, do we stop paying in from then? on tv last night they were talking of knocking the war debt off the 69million junker says we owe, if that is the case they will owe us millions! and on 29/3/19 that will be our Liberation day it could even be a public holiday...

[For Us All]

I can't see how being in the EU has helped the people of Stoke?Back in the 70's there wasn't much money around but at least people had jobs,a roof over their heads and food on the table.We had huge pottery,steel and mining industries,drugs were unheard of and crime was a fraction of what it is now.Today there is no industry,drug abuse is rife,crime has gone through the roof and the city has gone downbank.Some people will no doubt blame it on the Tories but 13 years of Labour has seen no improvement in the city either.

You've only got to take a walk around Hanley to see the downward trend and I believe people voted for change.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

In reality, how successful will holding MPs to account be under the current electoral system? Not an argument for or against Brexit by the way.

 

The last election certainly held the Lib Dems up to account for what they had done in the coalition..now we can in theory hold them (MPs) to account even more

[mr.hobblesworth]

I can't see how being in the EU has helped the people of Stoke?

 

We got lots from membership of the EU. Think of holidays, maternity/ paternity pay, employment rights... I can't speak for S-o-T, but I know that in Manchester many of the buildings erected after the IRA bomb were paid for (at least partly) with EU money. The Vale fans that pass through Victoria Station on the way to Rochdale might notice how much it has improved of late; again, EU money.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I can't see how being in the EU has helped the people of Stoke?Back in the 70's there wasn't much money around but at least people had jobs,a roof over their heads and food on the table.We had huge pottery,steel and mining industries,drugs were unheard of and crime was a fraction of what it is now.Today there is no industry,drug abuse is rife,crime has gone through the roof and the city has gone downbank.Some people will no doubt blame it on the Tories but 13 years of Labour has seen no improvement in the city either.

You've only got to take a walk around Hanley to see the downward trend and I believe people voted for change.

 

Would any of that NOT have happened if we'd stayed out of the EU? Who knows.

 

Many complex political. economic and social reasons for the dramatic changes in SoT in the past 40 years or so..the EU has played it's part in that.

 

Employment rights has been one major benefit but whether the downsides outweigh the upsides I'm not sure.

[cheshirevaliant]

The last election certainly held the Lib Dems up to account for what they had done in the coalition..now we can in theory hold them (MPs) to account even more

 

What the Lib Dems had done JA, or what they were perceived to have done by the, mostly Tory, press?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

What the Lib Dems had done JA, or what they were perceived to have done by the, mostly Tory, press?

 

Elements of both no doubt but the electorate aren't stupid.....just getting into bed with the Conservatives was a step too far for many before you even begin to look at the likes of tuition fees.

 

Either way and based on fact or fiction or a combination of both it demonstrates that the electorate do have the power under our current system.

[Regal Beagle]

In reality, how successful will holding MPs to account be under the current electoral system? Not an argument for or against Brexit by the way.

 

Fair point, I should say more accountable.

[cheshirevaliant]

Elements of both no doubt but the electorate aren't stupid.....just getting into bed with the Conservatives was a step too far for many before you even begin to look at the likes of tuition fees.

 

Either way and based on fact or fiction or a combination of both it demonstrates that the electorate do have the power under our current system.

 

I'd still argue there is an element of illusion of power due to the power of the press to report what their mates in politics want them to report. Look at Osborne as editor of the Evening Standard and a sitting Tory MP. Look at Rebekah Brooks and Andy Coulson and their links with David Cameron.

 

Stupid, no. In the dark about a lot of matters, yes.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I'd still argue there is an element of illusion of power due to the power of the press to report what their mates in politics want them to report. Look at Osborne as editor of the Evening Standard and a sitting Tory MP. Look at Rebekah Brooks and Andy Coulson and their links with David Cameron.

 

Stupid, no. In the dark about a lot of matters, yes.

 

What I meant by them not being stupid is that if you and I can see what the press are up to then what reason is there for them (the vast majority of the wider electorate) not being able to do the same.

[Warren]

We got lots from membership of the EU. Think of holidays, maternity/ paternity pay, employment rights... I can't speak for S-o-T, but I know that in Manchester many of the buildings erected after the IRA bomb were paid for (at least partly) with EU money. The Vale fans that pass through Victoria Station on the way to Rochdale might notice how much it has improved of late; again, EU money.

 

I have spent a lot of time in the last few years doing compliance audit and assurance work related to the European Regional Development Fund and also other European Funds. So I am an expert in the funding regimes and all their rules.

 

The thing that stands out above all else is the UK Government or the devolved Governments can fund similar projects exactly the same way or better. In that way we would not lose the cost of our net contribution including the admin cost of the European Commission.

 

In addition, all these projects using EU funding require matched funding of usually 50%. So even when the EU funds are used, there is still a large UK input by one means or another. So don't get the idea the EU rebuilt Manchester in some heroic way, it at best gave us back our money topsliced.

[Guppy 4 England]

When are the snp going to be recognised as a fascist, right wing, racist party like the bnp?

[philpvfc]

I have spent a lot of time in the last few years doing compliance audit and assurance work related to the European Regional Development Fund and also other European Funds. So I am an expert in the funding regimes and all their rules.

 

The thing that stands out above all else is the UK Government or the devolved Governments can fund similar projects exactly the same way or better. In that way we would not lose the cost of our net contribution including the admin cost of the European Commission.

 

In addition, all these projects using EU funding require matched funding of usually 50%. So even when the EU funds are used, there is still a large UK input by one means or another. So don't get the idea the EU rebuilt Manchester in some heroic way, it at best gave us back our money topsliced.

 

 

Totally true. Also by funding our own projects we have more of a say where the money is spent. Also if we disagree where the money is being spent we have the choice to vote for another leading party who can make different decisions.

[FATBOYSTEVE]

When are the snp going to be recognised as a fascist, right wing, racist party like the bnp?

 

And Sturgen is a clone of that Merkel bloke who rules germany and the EU