A 2nd referendum

[SourceOfTheTrent]

The Germans like to think they are very similar to us but their standard of living is a lot better without high mortgages against their names, very good car schemes enabling them to have far better cars for cheaper and when I was over in Germany it amazed me how much manufacturing they still have, their economy is still booming, all I see over here is derelict factories as we look to import for a cheaper cost. Hopefully by leaving the EU we may be forced to manufacture more for ourselves and be more self reliant. Your previous comment about Europe being more important to us because percentage wise we export more than they do to us is a very negative way at looking at the situation, in a more positive view we import more from the EU than we export so if both sides don't agree on a free movement policy then we look to gain more duty than we would spend.

 

I'd love you to be right about a resurgence of manufacturing but at the moment I can't see any hope for that. Hopefully that will change.

 

As for the import / export point I made earlier I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying as we rely on exporting to the 27 remaining EU states much more than they rely on exporting to us so we can't afford a trade war and need to find other markets quickly. Very, very tough.

[For Us All]

I found out this week that the EU have banned most South African imports as South Africa wouldn't bow to a higher levy. Surely countries like that could add value to being trade partners. We might deal with the EU more than any other trade but our hands have been very tied to ensure we deal more and more with the EU.

 

More and more with the EU multinationals and less and less with small companies,Everything's designed around helping the big-boys,mainly in France and Germany.

[Fosse69]

I found out this week that the EU have banned most South African imports as South Africa wouldn't bow to a higher levy. Surely countries like that could add value to being trade partners. We might deal with the EU more than any other trade but our hands have been very tied to ensure we deal more and more with the EU.

Depends what they want to export, would they be undercutting local markets? What will we do if lots more cane sugar is imported to the detriment of all the sugar beet farmers and producers?

[bookworm]

Well done, you have demonstrated what an utter xenophobe you are and what a complete ignoramus through your personal insults and threat of physical violence, safe behind the anonymity of your computer keyboard. At your age you should be less aggressive, you don't know if I'm like Leona Lewis or Lennox Lewis. 'Punch my lights out'? Ha ha ha ha ha!! I'm not ageist, my comments were a little tongue in cheek but you're obviously not bright enough to see that.

 

Adenauer wasn't far wrong was he? Germany has been an economic success whether we like it or not and has developed its manufacturing base whilst we failed miserably to invest in ours and continued with class ridden confrontational management practices. There's an element of truth in what Heseltine said about us leaving the EU paving the way for German domination of Europe and ironically he was a member of the dreadful Thatcher government that lifted restrictions on movement of capital abroad and did more than any other government to destroy British manufacturing, the main source of British wealth creation since the industrial revolution began. 1983 saw the first time since the industrial revolution that Britain imported more manufactured goods than it exported, a position we've never recovered. Thank you Margaret.

 

Do you know any Germans? Have you ever worked there or even been there? They're very similar to us in their opinions and lifestyle and are not some nation of bogeymen to be feared. The same goes across the whole of Europe in my opinion, we should be working together for the greater good not still pretending its 1939-45 and we're all trying to kill each other.

 

How were the EU going to bankrupt us? It's our governments that have run up massive balance of payments deficits and huge public sector borrowing and that will continue outside the EU.

 

Just to put a cherry on the cake for you, I am a UK passport holder but qualify to apply for a passport from another EU state so I could emigrate at some future point if I choose. Want to contribute some of your meagre UK old age pension to my relocation costs?

 

Finally, congratulations on being the first poster on here I've ever felt the need to respond to in a personally insulting manner. Not really my style but you really are a hate filled old **** (fill in the blanks with your favourite obscenity).

 

your comments weren't tongue in cheek they were ment so I replied in the spirit they were given so don't come the only joking ploy it wont work with me and as for being hate filled you're talking through your hearse,i'm a pussy cat but like all cats when I scratch I draw blood so now article 50 has been invoked just accept it and leave off blaming us pensioners for voting for brexit .

[Davebrad]

Adenauer wasn't far wrong was he? Germany has been an economic success whether we like it or not and has developed its manufacturing base whilst we failed miserably to invest in ours and continued with class ridden confrontational management practices.

 

Germany's success and position in Europe/the world, is mainly thanks to Gt. Britain and the US making the country a wasteland, then bankrolling them to re-build from scratch without any repayment. Our country paid for the 2WW by running its infrastructure into the ground, and not having the money to upgrade anything, rationing ended in 1954 11yrs after the war...yet we put up with it and sent our products all over the world, and class ridden confrountation was because we'd had enough of make do and wanted better, God willing we will survive post brexit and it will be a better world for us...

[philpvfc]

Depends what they want to export, would they be undercutting local markets? What will we do if lots more cane sugar is imported to the detriment of all the sugar beet farmers and producers?

 

I don't think so as the products I know about are South African foods, which I guess could be made over here but I'm not aware that they currently are or ever have been. The ban is not just for these products but I believe the disagreement was over the increase of levies but I admit I am not certain of all the reasons.

[philpvfc]

I'd love you to be right about a resurgence of manufacturing but at the moment I can't see any hope for that. Hopefully that will change.

 

As for the import / export point I made earlier I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying as we rely on exporting to the 27 remaining EU states much more than they rely on exporting to us so we can't afford a trade war and need to find other markets quickly. Very, very tough.

 

I don't think either parties can afford a trade war. Theresa May knows this and is playing her cards close to her chest. The EU will not want to be seen to be allowing it easy on us but they know it's also in their interest to strike up a good agreement that is good for them to. There will be a lot of cat and mouse over the next 2 years till the final agreements are in place, we won't get everything our own way but we cannot just lie over and bow to everything the EU want us to do. We may not be the only country leaving the EU by the time the agreements have been settled therefor our position will only get stronger.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

your comments weren't tongue in cheek they were ment so I replied in the spirit they were given so don't come the only joking ploy it wont work with me and as for being hate filled you're talking through your hearse,i'm a pussy cat but like all cats when I scratch I draw blood so now article 50 has been invoked just accept it and leave off blaming us pensioners for voting for brexit .

 

Even tempered yet you wish to 'punch my lights out'? I said a LITTLE tongue in cheek, I did mean what I said about older voters not having to live with the outcome of Brexit, whether good or bad, but obviously it would be undemocratic to deny people their vote and I added the jovial question of 'is that ageist?'. I don't 'blame' older voters for Brexit, that was the doing of the collective of leave voters but research after the referendum showed there to be a significant weighting toward older voters crossing the leave box and younger voters crossing the remain box. I've met plenty of uneven tempered people with opposing views to mine over the years and I'm glad to report I've still got my good looks and all my teeth, maybe that's because I'm not aggressive but I'm also not frightened by aggressive people. It also might surprise you to know that whilst I'm still of working age I'm not all that much younger than you and can clearly remember our joining the EEC as it was then in 1973.

 

I accept Brexit, I have to, but it doesn't mean to say I have to agree with it and it doesn't mean I have to put up and shut up, just like the Eurosceptics didn't all through our membership. Like you I'm a European but, unlike you, I see myself as European first and British second like Americans see themselves as American first and a New Yorker / Californian / Texan / whatever second. You are entitled to your opinion and much as I disagree I don't feel the need to fill you in or to wish you ill will but I'm not going to roll over and be cyber bullied by some old scrote!

 

Up the Vale!!

[philpvfc]

Adenauer wasn't far wrong was he? Germany has been an economic success whether we like it or not and has developed its manufacturing base whilst we failed miserably to invest in ours and continued with class ridden confrontational management practices.

 

Germany's success and position in Europe/the world, is mainly thanks to Gt. Britain and the US making the country a wasteland, then bankrolling them to re-build from scratch without any repayment. Our country paid for the 2WW by running its infrastructure into the ground, and not having the money to upgrade anything, rationing ended in 1954 11yrs after the war...yet we put up with it and sent our products all over the world, and class ridden confrountation was because we'd had enough of make do and wanted better, God willing we will survive post brexit and it will be a better world for us...

 

 

Our manufacturing was also destroyed by Thatcher selling everything off and selling us off to the banks.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

I don't think either parties can afford a trade war. Theresa May knows this and is playing her cards close to her chest. The EU will not want to be seen to be allowing it easy on us but they know it's also in their interest to strike up a good agreement that is good for them to. There will be a lot of cat and mouse over the next 2 years till the final agreements are in place, we won't get everything our own way but we cannot just lie over and bow to everything the EU want us to do. We may not be the only country leaving the EU by the time the agreements have been settled therefor our position will only get stronger.

 

Fair points I wouldn't argue with apart from I hope and don't think the EU will dissolve, it will be a disaster for all Europe if it does because as individual non-collective trading nations we will not be able to compete with the massive economies of the USA and China. Whatever else comes of negotiations we HAVE to get as close to remaining part of the single market as possible.

[Fosse69]

Our manufacturing was also destroyed by Thatcher selling everything off and selling us off to the banks.

Car industry rebuilt by foreign owners and out of our control.

[Bea Smith]

It is said that May will have to pay the EU £52 billion for the UK leaving. That works out just over £3000 for each of the 17million or so doom-brains that voted to leave, and it is possible to trace them through voting slips, so start saving some of you, it's only fair you should pay it.

 

Perhaps some of the £350million a day or whatever the lie was on the bus adverts might help.

[bookworm]

Even tempered yet you wish to 'punch my lights out'? I said a LITTLE tongue in cheek, I did mean what I said about older voters not having to live with the outcome of Brexit, whether good or bad, but obviously it would be undemocratic to deny people their vote and I added the jovial question of 'is that ageist?'. I don't 'blame' older voters for Brexit, that was the doing of the collective of leave voters but research after the referendum showed there to be a significant weighting toward older voters crossing the leave box and younger voters crossing the remain box. I've met plenty of uneven tempered people with opposing views to mine over the years and I'm glad to report I've still got my good looks and all my teeth, maybe that's because I'm not aggressive but I'm also not frightened by aggressive people. It also might surprise you to know that whilst I'm still of working age I'm not all that much younger than you and can clearly remember our joining the EEC as it was then in 1973.

 

I accept Brexit, I have to, but it doesn't mean to say I have to agree with it and it doesn't mean I have to put up and shut up, just like the Eurosceptics didn't all through our membership. Like you I'm a European but, unlike you, I see myself as European first and British second like Americans see themselves as American first and a New Yorker / Californian / Texan / whatever second. You are entitled to your opinion and much as I disagree I don't feel the need to fill you in or to wish you ill will but I'm not going to roll over and be cyber bullied by some old scrote!

 

Up the Vale!!

 

less of the scrote if you don't mind:innocent06:

[Regal Beagle]

It is said that May will have to pay the EU £52 billion for the UK leaving. That works out just over £3000 for each of the 17million or so doom-brains that voted to leave, and it is possible to trace them through voting slips, so start saving some of you, it's only fair you should pay it.

 

Perhaps some of the £350million a day or whatever the lie was on the bus adverts might help.

 

Even funnier than that is that you mugs would be paying it for it as well.

 

How does £1500 each sound?

 

But also, how about we just don't pay £50 billion to the EU? What are they going to do, put us in jail?

[Mario]

It is said that May will have to pay the EU £52 billion for the UK leaving. That works out just over £3000 for each of the 17million or so doom-brains that voted to leave, and it is possible to trace them through voting slips, so start saving some of you, it's only fair you should pay it.

 

Perhaps some of the £350million a day or whatever the lie was on the bus adverts might help.

 

Genuine question Bea, whose come up with the figure £52 billion, the EU has not done an audit for is it for 15 years ?