“There was nothing in the game” has surely got to be one of the most infuriating things Defensive Minded, sorry, Darren Moore could say. Why was there nothing in the game??? It’s supposed to be a fight for top spot and we’ve got home advantage!!!

We might as well have Aspin still in charge.

God it’s so frustrating. Anyone remember the days when under Adams when played 4-4-2 with two wingers and put 6 past our nearest rivals? 

Pathetic yesterday. Conditions are irrelevant, both teams have to deal with them. 

A least a month of poor performances where we haven't deserved to get a point out of any games, but somehow have. Yesterday was the nadir. So many individual errors, sloppy touches and passes, inability to play the conditions. Walsall weren't much cop either but we're much better than us.

All teams are allowed a bad run and no one is naive enough to think we'll win every game, but it's the lethargic manner of the recent performances that p!sses me off. 

Over too you now Moore. You've shown us what a good manager you can be at the start of the season, lots of important players coming back from injury, a half decent run of fixtures coming up and January is on the horizon. Stop rotating 4+ players a game so no one has chance to build relationships, stop bombing players for months then bringing them in from the cold so they're hung out to dry on the pitch, stop playing players that are no where near good enough (how hackford and grant for example have even got a squad number is beyond me). 

I'm sure we can put this month behind us kick on. UTV. 

Edited December 8, 20241 yr by Walka003

45 minutes ago, SuperHuman said:

The better team won. Walsall impressed me. They completely nullified us for the majority of that game. Their front two and midfield didn’t let us get up the pitch, especially second half. 

As for us, we didn’t look like a top of the table team. We created one chance. As I said on Tuesday, the majority of our games are none events and decided by small margins. If we continue to play in this manner we are going to lose a lot more games 1-0.

Another concern, if Stockley doesn’t play or has a bad game (he’s been poor for weeks now) then the whole team suffers. The midfield and defence looked clueless going forward. Our great run of form coincided with Stockley coming in to the team and playing well. 

Walsall impressed you because we didn’t get up the pitch- sorry, no, our tactic was to pass it around the defence, no movement up front to play to because we had nothing up front, Hall is not the best playmaker we have despite relying on him and Debrah who makes Smith look like Paul Gascoigne on the ball. I didn’t see a lot of closing down from their forwards, we just do not have the quality in our back line to play the football Moore is trying to make us play.

We were bad yesterday but Walsall were no better, the difference was they played a couple of strikers and had a lot more intent on scoring a goal.

How do you block a user? 

25 minutes ago, SuperHuman said:

Also, without Stockley, I’m not sure the other strikers are good enough.

Tolaj and Paton have hardly proved that they should be starting. Hackford is a 4th choice striker who’s clearly not ready. This is why Moore went with Curtis upfront. 

Other than free kicks, Paton hasn’t looked like a goal threat once. 

Do you not think they need a run of games before that kind of judgement? Coming on here & there with 20 mins to play & chasing a game would be difficult for most players to make an impact. Especially without any football league experience, Tolaj isn’t even making the squad it’s madness. We’ve all seen what he can contribute to the team earlier in the season when he’s picking off assists for fun & scoring. Neither have been getting consistent minutes. I can see why when Stockley is pivotal to how we play but we need plan b & plan c etc & that’s down to the gaffer. I like Stockley but I don’t feel we need to rely so heavily on him either at the same time. Let’s have it right he’s not even winning his duals of late & has missed a fair few chances himself recently which he will be disappointed with on a personal note. I don’t care what level you play at a goalscorer knows where the net is. The goal posts haven’t changed size, give Paton & Tolaj game time & chances & I have no doubt they will score goals. They scored 36 goals between them last season & Ruari bagged 25 the season before. That’s just league goals never mind cup games I think Tolaj hit around the 26 mark last time out. Yes at a lower level but as I’ve said they know how to put the ball in the net. It’s more about playing to their strengths for me or even playing them full stop! Right now I’d take Paton & Tolaj together as a pair & play two up top than this one striker we persist with & lumping it to Stockley. All about options & the managers selection of course.

Edited December 8, 20241 yr by VTID-New

17 minutes ago, Baldy said:

I'm not a pro footballer or sports person and at 62 I expect that ship has sailed but know what it is like to be in a large squad to choose from. I was one for everyone getting a game so was happy to be in and out of side as we all worked during the week and just wanted to play. This is very much different at Vale. All the players could be buying into "What's best for the team and game approach" but wonder if this is not the case. If I was a Vale player or any player I would want to be in the side if my performances warranted it. In the system that now exists, players know that regardless of how they play they are not in the team or out on form but suitability to the game. Players are playing then not even in the squad the next game. To me, it takes that sharpness of mind and body to play well as it doesn't guarantee a place next game. Could be miles out on this but think how you would feel.

In fairness, with the current rules around substitutions, there is a lot more scope to give players minutes so the argument for having a settled starting 11 is actually stronger in my view, simply because it’s possible to make far more changes during the game than it ever was.  The current trend does seem to be to take a horses for courses approach when picking a starting 11,  as illustrated when DC was in charge.  I guess both have their merits it’s more a case of striking the right balance to keep players happy and match fit/sharp, and having the right players to play the shape and tactics the manager wants.

For me, you put your strongest 11 out every week but how often these days do fans say the manager doesn’t know his strongest 11.

In our case right now the injuries to our midfield have definitely hampered us so it as not just squad rotation.

6 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Walsall impressed you because we didn’t get up the pitch- sorry, no, our tactic was to pass it around the defence, no movement up front to play to because we had nothing up front, Hall is not the best playmaker we have despite relying on him and Debrah who makes Smith look like Paul Gascoigne on the ball. I didn’t see a lot of closing down from their forwards, we just do not have the quality in our back line to play the football Moore is trying to make us play.

We were bad yesterday but Walsall were no better, the difference was they played a couple of strikers and had a lot more intent on scoring a goal.

Give them some credit. If we won away at Walsall like that we’d be raving about it. 

 

8 minutes ago, VTID-New said:

Do you not think they need a run of games before that kind of judgement? Coming on here & there with 20 mins to play & chasing a game would be difficult for most players to make an impact. Especially without any football league experience, Tolaj isn’t even making the squad it’s madness. We’ve all seen what he can contribute to the team earlier in the season when he’s picking off assists for fun & scoring. Neither have been getting consistent minutes. I can see why when Stockley is pivotal to how we play but we need plan b & plan c etc & that’s down to the gaffer. I like Stockley but I don’t feel we need to rely so heavily on him either at the same time. Let’s have it right he’s not even winning his duals of late & has missed a fair few chances himself recently which he will be disappointed with on a personal note. I don’t care what level you play at a goalscorer knows where the net is. The goal posts haven’t changed size, give Paton & Tolaj game time & chances & I have no doubt they will score goals. They scored 36 goals between them last season & Ruari bagged 25 the season before. That’s just league goals never mind cup games I think Tolaj hit around the 26 mark last time out. Yes at a lower level but as I’ve said they know how to put the ball in the net. It’s more about playing to their strengths for me or even playing them full stop! Right now I’d take Paton & Tolaj together as a pair & play two up top than this one striker we persist with & lumping it to Stockley. All about options & the managers selection of course.

I’m probably being harsh. Give them a run of games by all means. 

It was a  rubbish from the selection  to end result . For me DM picked a side to run them ragged  and then we pumped it long into the wind and his plans went to sjoke. The goal was unfortunate , however credit to Walsall they played the conditions better . The question is does this define our season , no , however it’s time for DM to earn his money and find a winning formation from this expensively recruited squad . 

Byers will make a big difference in us keeping the ball better u could see it yesterday 

10 minutes ago, SuperHuman said:

I’m probably being harsh. Give them a run of games by all means. 

I think so, neither have had a good run of games. Maybe Tolaj earlier in the season & he scored a couple & got about 5 assists. Proofs in the pudding. He’s gonna have bad games having stepped up from the national league as all at this level will. There’s a player in there for me & you all know I’m a big fan of Ruari. Personally I can’t stand one striker but a lot of teams go with that these days. It’s alright winning some knock downs with Stockley but when we’ve got two inside forwards absolutely nowhere near them it doesn’t work. I’m not blaming that on Stockley he’s done his bit the others need to get closer to him. I just think a change in formation is needed at this stage & stop the 5-6 players in one week & out the next, it’s helping nobody. Stockley is important for certain games & situations but he’s now played 18 league games in which the majority have been starts & he’s scored 4 goals. It’s not great is it. At least play Paton or Tolaj alongside him to win the knock downs & get in behind. Frustrating to say the least because in all honesty none of our 4 strikers have pulled up any trees but some have had a lot more game time & chances than others so far 

Edited December 8, 20241 yr by VTID-New

21 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Walsall impressed you because we didn’t get up the pitch- sorry, no, our tactic was to pass it around the defence, no movement up front to play to because we had nothing up front, Hall is not the best playmaker we have despite relying on him and Debrah who makes Smith look like Paul Gascoigne on the ball. I didn’t see a lot of closing down from their forwards, we just do not have the quality in our back line to play the football Moore is trying to make us play.

We were bad yesterday but Walsall were no better, the difference was they played a couple of strikers and had a lot more intent on scoring a goal.

I thought they were really good without the ball and the reason we spent so much time faffing about with it between the centre halves wasn't through design, but because their shape was good and organised. They didn't press high until after they scored, but sat off and congested the middle. Second half they went more aggressive and pinned us.

There was nothing on, but we couldn't go long due to the conditions, hence Debrah passing to Hall. I don't for a second think that was the plan.

A well-coached, young team. They weren't brilliant but no one was going to be yesterday.

Playing with no recognised strikers is not the way to go if you are a club with ambition. Will Liverpool line up next week with Salah, Nunez and Gakpo on the bench? Teams with ambition attack the opposition home and away because they play with confidence and belief that they are better. Who got promoted from league 2 last season? Stockport and Wrexham were the leading lights. And they did it by regularly winning by 2,3 or 4 goal victories. They didn't try and sneak 1 goal victories. They playrd attacking football and the crowds locked to see them. 

28 minutes ago, Biddulph_PV said:

“There was nothing in the game” has surely got to be one of the most infuriating things Defensive Minded, sorry, Darren Moore could say. Why was there nothing in the game??? It’s supposed to be a fight for top spot and we’ve got home advantage!!!

We might as well have Aspin still in charge.

God it’s so frustrating. Anyone remember the days when under Adams when played 4-4-2 with two wingers and put 6 past our nearest rivals? 

I also remember the days under Adams, in that very season, when we won 2 in 9 from Oct-Dec and then 1 in 8. We had to draw 4 of our last 5 to go up. We won 4 of our last 16. Limped to promotion despite the big-spending on Hughes and Purse. A younger me lost his head and, like you, just couldn't fathom why we didn't just win loads of games.

I'm going to say it again.

Every team, including Champions, in the 4th tier will have probably 2 poor runs of around 6-10 games a season. 

13 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

I thought they were really good without the ball and the reason we spent so much time faffing about with it between the centre halves wasn't through design, but because their shape was good and organised. They didn't press high until after they scored, but sat off and congested the middle. Second half they went more aggressive and pinned us.

There was nothing on, but we couldn't go long due to the conditions, hence Debrah passing to Hall. I don't for a second think that was the plan.

A well-coached, young team. They weren't brilliant but no one was going to be yesterday.

One thing Walsall deserve credit for. Their press, I thought they were brilliant at it yesterday & we struggled when we didn’t have time on the ball.