Flitcroft gone

[Guitar Ray]

3 hours ago, rider1308 said:

Your full of <ovf censored> 

You’re.👍🏻

[Hoppers]

4 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

You’re right, but if that letter from Carol stings then you’ve gone soft.  I am looking forward to that breakfast.👍🏻

Yes GR I think you are right - I have gone soft - alongside a few thousand other vale fans 👍👍👍👍

[JRC]

Upon reflection I don't think the tenure of Flitcroft has been as bad as many make out given his role. The recruitment side obviously cost him his job. Initially his recruitment was good, although we were a relatively high payer (not the highest) in league 2. Particularly in the Jan 24 window my gut reaction is he was setting his sights too high, certainly for centreforward and possibly at leftback. What we needed was league 1 ready players to keep us up, not championship ready players. The summer window was mainly poor due to a lack of strikers. I know people will fire back that we recruited Loft but it's also true we missed out on a number of targets before we recruited Loft. Yes there were positive comments about Loft when he signed; but you don't sign someone and say I'm really pleased to sign my 10th choice centreforward.  How much missing players was due to budget, wage structure and a lack of realism is conjecture but there were decent (not top) league 1/2 strikers within our budget. Someone like Joe Ironside wouldn't have been a promotion striker BUT we would have been a much better team with him in the squad. 

That striker failure has largely been responsible for where we are. We showed early in the season we could be competitive in the league but the lack of goals meant pressure on the defence and defenders who looked reasonably solid at this level for 3 months post Barnsley away have one by one turned into rabbits in the headlights.

Where he certainly deserves credit is the way he has integrated the academy into the first team. I know there are strong supporters of Sevvy and that many of the youngsters coming through were recruited pre Shanahans.  The truth remains young players were not coming through before Flitcroft.  They are now. Whether that could have been achieved without sacking some of the existing staff is a different question.  He should take some credit for aligning the youth development and the first team, even if it could have been achieved in a different manner. 

Going forward the challenge is can we maintain the progress of the academy with new management in place at the same time as improving recruitment and performance of the first team. If we are to be sustainable and progress I personally feel the academy is probably more important in the long-term than the first team. The Rudge model got shut down by Bosman. For a club of our size there is the potential fairy godmother / godfather model but this is far from guaranteed.  There is the yoyo league 1/2 model which is performing in line with attendance.  Or there is the academy model. 

If we are going to stick with the academy model is Moore a manager brave enough to give youth it's chance? There is also the question of does our fanbase have the patience? Micky Adams certainly didn't think so. My own view is pre Rudge glory year supporters are probably a bit more sanguine about things than supporters from the mid 80s to late 90s. If you followed the club in the late 70s you really experienced dire. If we are going to keep with the academy we probably also need to replace Flitcroft to try and maintain a consistent approach at all levels in the club. If not then I suspect we will end up as the yoyo club as we have spent most of our history,  praying for a fairy godmother to come along.

[wotsyobeef]

Ray, whilst I agree with you, somewhat. I was told by a person who works at VP,that she was advised by everyone at the club not to make the statement because of the back lash but she made the decision to do it, going against others advice. 

I think that to be a strong leader you have to listen to the advice of those around you but ultimately come to your own decision. If that decision ends up being a mistake then you learn from it.

I'm sure Carol will have made plenty of decision in the past going against advice that have got her where she is.

I'm also sure she will have made decisions in the past, going against advice she was given which she later regretted.

If she didn't go with her gut and published the letter she would probably now still be thinking that if she had things may have been different. That her show of faith in flitcroft and the players may have galvanised the squad and got the results we needed.

Even worse not going with her gut may have made her second guess every bold decision in the future.

Most people who have become incredibly successful in life look back at a point in their life where they had an idea and went with it, when everyone else told them it would never work, as the decision that made them.

[Cocknocker]

9 hours ago, Killersrevenge44 said:

Gannon vs Flitcroft 

Gannon would win

True, but in fairness Dave would turn up with a pair of boxing gloves and mad Jim with a machete and a handful of grenades!

[1]

When’s the follow up / full explanation going to be shared?

[werstayinup]

21 hours ago, Iron Curtain said:

Right decision and will benefit Port Vale in the long run if not the short run to the end of this season.

My view on Carol is that I try to judge people on intentions over execution.

Her intentions are absolutely to do the best she can for Port Vale. That gets her a significant amount of leeway in my eyes.

The execution hasn’t been perfect and it’s clear as a person she is very loyal and tends to hold on to people for too long when it’s clear they should go.

Its not the worst fault in the world, I can name many MANY worse by just looking at previous owners.

Great post and I have no doubt in my mind at all that she will strive to try her hardest to put it right

[werstayinup]

18 hours ago, Hoppers said:

I know the anti-christ has just departed, but TBH I'm still smarting (probably more so now) from Auntie Carols you lot of naughty boys open letter - just saying 😢😢😢

I wonder if she will release another trying to rectify that?

[Guitar Ray]

5 hours ago, Hoppers said:

Yes GR I think you are right - I have gone soft - alongside a few thousand other vale fans 👍👍👍👍

Thousands? In that case I can only put it down to the world we live in today, when a well meaning, albeit badly worded, letter causes such outrage.  I’ll have to admit that most fans I’ve spoken to in the flesh weren’t particularly arsed about the contents of the letter beyond the basics of it defending Flitcroft.  General opinion ranging from one of some sympathy towards her predicament to a feeling she’d had some kind of meltdown, poured her thoughts into a jumble of words and put them out there for all to see in a moment of weakness.  Who knows?👍🏻

[Bycarsbill]

I hope this to be the case, but the ultimate decision lies, of course, with Carol. I look forward to the club's announcement regarding the way forward. 

[Hoppers]

46 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

Thousands? In that case I can only put it down to the world we live in today, when a well meaning, albeit badly worded, letter causes such outrage.  I’ll have to admit that most fans I’ve spoken to in the flesh weren’t particularly arsed about the contents of the letter beyond the basics of it defending Flitcroft.  General opinion ranging from one of some sympathy towards her predicament to a feeling she’d had some kind of meltdown, poured her thoughts into a jumble of words and put them out there for all to see in a moment of weakness.  Who knows?👍🏻

Interesting how we all attach a different interpretation to the same words - appreciate and understand your view GR, but for me it will always come across as condescending and ill judged - you don't write a tome like she did in two minutes and hurriedly push it out onto the ole interweb - she really took her time with it - anyway its in the past now (just like the clown it was defending)👍👍👍👍 

Edited March 23 by Hoppers

[werstayinup]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but if we are to stick with a head of recruitment what about trying to bring Foyle in for that role,he has been spoken highly of in that role at previous clubs?? 

[TJHValiant]

5 hours ago, JRC said:Upon reflection I don't think the tenure of Flitcroft has been as bad as many make out given his role. The recruitment side obviously cost him his job. Initially his recruitment was good, although we were a relatively high payer (not the highest) in league 2.

Where he certainly deserves credit is the way he has integrated the academy into the first team. I know there are strong supporters of Sevvy and that many of the youngsters coming through were recruited pre Shanahans.

You’re right, the reason the recruitment was good was because we had a biggish budget for league 2. Flitcroft then signed good league 2 players and we did well. 
 

Budget in league 1 has been nowhere near enough. That same standard has given us this woeful outcome. 
 

The only reason academy youngsters have been anywhere near the first team is due to budget cuts, not because they are actually good enough. 
 

Thank Auntie Carol for our dire budget and impending relegation. 

[Bimbleabout]

You’re right, the reason the recruitment was good was because we had a biggish budget for league 2. Flitcroft then signed good league 2 players and we did well. 
 
Budget in league 1 has been nowhere near enough. That same standard has given us this woeful outcome. 
 
The only reason academy youngsters have been anywhere near the first team is due to budget cuts, not because they are actually good enough. 
 
Thank Auntie Carol for our dire budget and impending relegation. 

Do we thank Auntie Carol for pumping 2 mill in for the last two seasons to try and keep us afloat in league 1?
It hasn't worked. We can only sign the injured, not very good(who on paper look better) and loanees.
For all his faults, the amount of players Flitcroft got in over the last few seasons to try and make it work, with, what appears to be not alot of money available, is kind of admirable. It could've worked, but it didn't. Hence why we are where we are.
I'm just personally looking forward to winning some games (hopefully ) and if that's in league 2 then so be it.
I'm sure lessons have been well and truely learnt from this saga. UTV

[Jacko51]

1 hour ago, wotsyobeef said:

I think that to be a strong leader you have to listen to the advice of those around you but ultimately come to your own decision. If that decision ends up being a mistake then you learn from it.

I'm sure Carol will have made plenty of decision in the past going against advice that have got her where she is.

I'm also sure she will have made decisions in the past, going against advice she was given which she later regretted.

If she didn't go with her gut and published the letter she would probably now still be thinking that if she had things may have been different. That her show of faith in flitcroft and the players may have galvanised the squad and got the results we needed.

Even worse not going with her gut may have made her second guess every bold decision in the future.

Most people who have become incredibly successful in life look back at a point in their life where they had an idea and went with it, when everyone else told them it would never work, as the decision that made them.

Apparently, she was advised by her legal people not to buy the Vale!