An Open Letter from Carol

[DaneValiant]

It would appear, based on my work “inclusion and diversity” training course yesterday, that Carol inadvertently sees a metaphorical “halo” around Flitcroft. As soon as you make your mind up that you really like someone, you’ll do everything in your power to find positives and ignore negatives. That is why loaning players from Prem teams is wonderful…. And not actually loaning in any strikers is besides the point. Hopefully she can snap out of it. 

[sandyford_valiant]

2 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

I think it is easy to say that it is Carols money and we have to keep Carol onside but if the football is continually dreadful people won't go to watch.  Plenty of businesses have failed due to the management not understanding the customer. I have been watching Vale for over 20 years but I am wondering about giving it up. Leyton Orient showed how football should be played, with a team of players who knew how to play for each other and wanted to score goals. We are neither entertaining to watch nor successful.

I’ve not had chance to look but you make a great point about orients side. They were a team full of quick passing and movement and tore us to bits. They looked a great side and can see why they’re up there and comfortable. Just out of interest, how much did all their players cost? And do they have any so called top u20 stars on loan? It can be done with a decent manager in charge: this proves it. We simply have to get this managerial appointment spot in. 

[PVFC764]

9 hours ago, Rory said:

9 hours ago, Vale1995 said:

Heres a question for you. If we were to sack flickers do you think hed get taken on by any other club in the football league as a director of football?

He'd stand a good chance with his record at Vale behind him.

He has probably done a lot behind the scenes and offered advice on getting the ground up to spec.  But there again was that Colin Garlic advice?  However, when it comes to getting the players into the club it seems to have failed big style and wants them to play a style they just cant play either.  Also left big decisions (if he made them) till it was too late - eg:  AC being removed.   This should have happened back in Oct 23.  

I can't see Carol and Co getting rid of Flickers till he has taken the club to the brink.  

[Vtid]

12 hours ago, meldan2 said:

Think this is my first ever post.

Having read the letter, I think there is lots to admire and lots to ponder. As a fan, there is pretty much nothing I understand about the business of professional football, and how to run a club. But from over 40 years of watching football, playing it and coaching it, you know when the product - either tactics, or players, just aren't good enough.

The Shanahans are still what this club needs, I think. Flitcroft - I now don't think so. Carol said that Flitcroft was brought in because he does understand the football business - and so she is kind of portraying herself as a 'fan' aswell, who has to trust the football side to him. But if she sees herself as a 'fan' surely she should also appreciate the things we all see, that are wrong on the football side.

A League 1 club still should have a massive pool of potential players to recruit from. But signings made have just made the club worse. We are so near Manchester / Liverpool / S Yorks, that surely there must be a large number of pros that could make the squad better. In recent years, Accrington did so well in this respect, managing to recruit from local areas with a decent size pool of talent. Sang came from Cardiff - Chislett (admittedly a success) from Wimbledon - Loft from Bristol - Iacovitti from Scotland... I just don't get why we pick up players from all over, seemingly missing out on so much talent that is nearby. Add to the dodgy recruitment, the 'system', Crosby's initial appointment... and overall you could almost see Flitcroft's involvement in playing matters as negligent.

Fingers crossed we stay up by the skin of our teeth. But it looks doubtful. And if Carol is a 'fan' like the rest of us... she is the only fan with the power to do something major to impact the playing side of things, immediately.

What a great first post that is! 👌🏻 

[Vtid]

7 hours ago, Wrex said:

I think it's safe to say the letter has not gone down well. If Carol could not be dissuaded to change her mind on Flitcroft then I'd have recommended her to have at least redrafted the article. Firstly to be a lot more succinct and a lot more contrite, asking for support and forgiveness for errors rather than citing Dave and her own achievements.

Paragraph 1 - acknowledge the disappointment of this season, the seriousness of the situation, and assure fans everyone at the club is dissatisfied with his things have gone and are working hard to improve.

Paragraph 2 - explicitly state why things have gone so wrong. Yes, injuries, yes bad luck times, but specifically address the January transfer window. Say what happened. We don't need names or specifics, just say whatever it was... an experienced striker was in the building but x/y happened, a backup option had a last minute offer somewhere else, we were used by an unnamed player to get a new contract at his current club, an agent tried to screw us at the last minute, <ovf censored> whatever it was. Something to help us understand that we did the right thing but it just didn't happen for us.

Paragraph 3 - state her position (Flitcroft stays), mention the overall progress of the last five years. Promise that progress will continue regardless of where we finish this season. Mention the hidden expenses of running the club and fixing the stadium.

Paragraph 4 - plead for unity, ask for patience and forgiveness for errors (that have actually been explained in paragraph 2, not just glossed over), say how important the fans are, ask them to back the team and the new manager in the remainder of the season

 

I dunno, just not a long rambling letter that said how the fans should be grateful for her, that Dave is wonderful and achieved so much and that fans should stop being mean to him

Love this mate 👍🏻 

[Vtid]

6 hours ago, MBE said:

I’ve enjoyed reading the thread and seeing you as a mouthpiece for the club. You’ve held your own against the grain and make some valid points. You should change your username to PVFC Employee.😀

I will pick on one point to elaborate on your others:

Here’s the thing about a plan….. you have to continually re-evaluate where you are to plan, ask yourself:

is it still the right path or do you need to change course?

Are the timescales on target and achievable?

If we achieved promotion early (I firmly we believe we did based on 2 year contracts given to players that season) you have to move your plans. We took a calculated gamble last season (I supported this in recognition of CAPEX investment and hamstrung with L2 player quality contracts)  which we just about got away with. Knowing how close we were to relegation last season and the turnaround required in the squad, a gamble on a coach who looked like he had his arm twisted to be manager, surely you reassess the level of CAPEX and say that investment needs to be done over the next X rather than Y. That results in an increase to the 1st team to make sure we are not in the relegation places again.What you don’t do is continue with ambitious CAPEX plans. We simply have not performed that re-evaluation and have been quite arrogant in the player market because we think we can trade alone on an improved reputation. Using we are ahead of schedule in our plan is in no way shape or form an acceptable excuse. We needed to pivot our position.

 

I agree whole heartedly how we want to be as a club, how we want to develop training areas, facilities , the god  awful ticketing, the pitch, academy, the ground etc. but this cannot be  to the detriment of achieving the here and now.i.e L1 status.

Look at planning another way, if we are in L2 next season will we carry on with the same amount of CAPEX expenditure even though it’s in our 5 year plan? Of course not because we won’t have the same income. We will have less season tickets, much smaller away followings and all these links to Man UTD,Spurs,Liverpool etc. will be for nothing because I guarantee we won’t be getting U23 PL loans in L2. That would be another change in the plan. Medium and long term plans have to evolve based on short term results.

Flitcroft, Carol too have buried their heads in the sand. Ignored fans concerns for months, then hold a forum backing the manager, insisting they would strengthen key areas, brushing aside fans concerns about relegation and teams toughness yet 2 days after the transfer window without said reinforcements and 1 defeat the manager has been sacked? What is all that about. It’s poor really really poor. 

Then we get an open letter giving us a brief history 99.99% of fans already know before trying to tell us how great Flitcroft is. This shows me Carol doesn’t understand why fans are upset and still isn’t listening and that’s a big worry for me.

Overall I have to say I’m really disappointed in the l actions from leadership at the club. I have lost complete faith and trust in Flitcroft and Carol’s letter is tone deaf.

Apologies for the long post. 

Amen to this brother 👊🏻 

[Warren]

7 hours ago, MBE said:

I’ve enjoyed reading the thread and seeing you as a mouthpiece for the club. You’ve held your own against the grain and make some valid points. You should change your username to PVFC Employee.😀

I will pick on one point to elaborate on your others:

Here’s the thing about a plan….. you have to continually re-evaluate where you are to plan, ask yourself:

is it still the right path or do you need to change course?

Are the timescales on target and achievable?

If we achieved promotion early (I firmly we believe we did based on 2 year contracts given to players that season) you have to move your plans. We took a calculated gamble last season (I supported this in recognition of CAPEX investment and hamstrung with L2 player quality contracts)  which we just about got away with. Knowing how close we were to relegation last season and the turnaround required in the squad, a gamble on a coach who looked like he had his arm twisted to be manager, surely you reassess the level of CAPEX and say that investment needs to be done over the next X rather than Y. That results in an increase to the 1st team to make sure we are not in the relegation places again.What you don’t do is continue with ambitious CAPEX plans. We simply have not performed that re-evaluation and have been quite arrogant in the player market because we think we can trade alone on an improved reputation. Using we are ahead of schedule in our plan is in no way shape or form an acceptable excuse. We needed to pivot our position.

 

I agree whole heartedly how we want to be as a club, how we want to develop training areas, facilities , the god  awful ticketing, the pitch, academy, the ground etc. but this cannot be  to the detriment of achieving the here and now.i.e L1 status.

Look at planning another way, if we are in L2 next season will we carry on with the same amount of CAPEX expenditure even though it’s in our 5 year plan? Of course not because we won’t have the same income. We will have less season tickets, much smaller away followings and all these links to Man UTD,Spurs,Liverpool etc. will be for nothing because I guarantee we won’t be getting U23 PL loans in L2. That would be another change in the plan. Medium and long term plans have to evolve based on short term results.

Flitcroft, Carol too have buried their heads in the sand. Ignored fans concerns for months, then hold a forum backing the manager, insisting they would strengthen key areas, brushing aside fans concerns about relegation and teams toughness yet 2 days after the transfer window without said reinforcements and 1 defeat the manager has been sacked? What is all that about. It’s poor really really poor. 

Then we get an open letter giving us a brief history 99.99% of fans already know before trying to tell us how great Flitcroft is. This shows me Carol doesn’t understand why fans are upset and still isn’t listening and that’s a big worry for me.

Overall I have to say I’m really disappointed in the l actions from leadership at the club. I have lost complete faith and trust in Flitcroft and Carol’s letter is tone deaf.

Apologies for the long post. 

The defeat at Fleetwood was the final straw. The appointment of Crosby was plausible because he had lengthy coaching experience and been successful as caretaker manager in contributing to promotion. It was scary that result, because I thought we had enough in the squad to defeat Fleetwood and move back into mid table. So clearly a crisis arose and action was needed to replace the manager. We need an experienced manager to come in right now whilst the situation can still be arrested. 

However, after watching on Tuesday where we got battered by an upper mid table team, the transfer window does come full frontal. Midfield and wing backs, if we are going to play that system, are far too weak. In fact miles off it. Changing to my favoured formations of 433 or 4411 won't help either because that weak midfield elephant will still be in the room. A new manager will need to repurpose some of the players. For example, we lost all the physical battles in midfield and were not tackling the opposition allowing them to look like Man City in possession. Surely a new experienced manager would at least improve resilience. 

I have moaned about our strikeforce. But until injury Garrity was doing better than Harrison. Chislett can be made more effective. He's running round doing stuff in midfield trying to compensate for the weaknesses we now have there. The problem with the young player loans and bringing young players through is we don't know they are ready. And what we have now aren't ready for L1 level as mainstays of the side. But going back to Garrity, this injury is a mighty serious blow to him and us. We can't just go out and sign another player who will score his goals return. Yes I expect the budget does come into play. 

Things have gone awry. With hindsight better choices could have been made. I was pleased with the open letter. The decision being made now to appoint a new manager and staff is one of the most critical in the club's history. We need to stay in L1 or the economics of the club, difficult anyway, football clubs at our level always are, will, I believe, start to unravel. New ownership or new part ownership will be needed. Because you can't keep pumping money in to make viable what is unviable. 

[Vtid]

I’ve definitely woke up feeling a bit better this morning, I’m still not happy about the letter or Floor cloth but it’s impossible for me to turn my back on this club I love & not support the team. As many have said this next managerial appointment is absolutely massive! Let’s hope we get it right, the new gaffer puts a rocket up their arse & we start to fight! There’s a long way to go yet. We can stay up but it’s going to take some effort from everyone that includes us fans. I’m not saying the chants have to stop but we have to unite to some degree. We’re all vale aren’t we 💪🏻 Have a good day Valiants 💙

[philpvfc]

Respect to Carol for writing the letter and I do hope she stays running the club, although outside investment is welcome. But after reading it, I think she feels like she owes DF, and his job is safe because they have a great friendship- I get, that friendship and trust is important when working together but ultimately if someone is not up to the job and not performing, the their position should be under question and if DF is responsible for the running of the football side then he is not performing, 3 very poor transfer windows in a row will most likely be the main contributor to our relegation this season. 2 managers have been sacked in this time, yet we all know that our squad was far stronger in December 2022 than it is now despite having a reasonable enough budget in the fact that we have not been forced to sell and we have brought loads of players in.

Most fans will listen to Carols plea, but all this will mean that they won’t be vocal at the matches, and just not turn up, I have now given up on this season, I may go one or 2 more games but I cannot be bothered now to make the 6 hour round trip to Vale Park and most likely won’t even bother with the 2 hour round trip to Cheltenham next week, a game i never miss.

[Raveninblack]

4 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Respect to Carol for writing the letter and I do hope she stays running the club, although outside investment is welcome. But after reading it, I think she feels like she owes DF, and his job is safe because they have a great friendship- I get, that friendship and trust is important when working together but ultimately if someone is not up to the job and not performing, the their position should be under question and if DF is responsible for the running of the football side then he is not performing, 3 very poor transfer windows in a row will most likely be the main contributor to our relegation this season. 2 managers have been sacked in this time, yet we all know that our squad was far stronger in December 2022 than it is now despite having a reasonable enough budget in the fact that we have not been forced to sell and we have brought loads of players in.

Most fans will listen to Carols plea, but all this will mean that they won’t be vocal at the matches, and just not turn up, I have now given up on this season, I may go one or 2 more games but I cannot be bothered now to make the 6 hour round trip to Vale Park and most likely won’t even bother with the 2 hour round trip to Cheltenham next week, a game i never miss.

I have complete respect for Carol but absolutely none for Flitcroft and there is little doubt we will be relegated and I don’t thing Flitcroft could run a bath let alone the next manager but without further investment I I don’t know where we are heading and forget championship ready, we are league two ready 

[valiant_593]

6 hours ago, andy jones said:

Brian that will be welcomed by some posters as they will have even more opportunity to moan we haven't signed a striker.

Yes because vale fans really want to see the club struggle and drop back into league 2. The striker issue is utterly ridiculous and I don’t think there is one vale fan happy with that situation. It’s a shame some posters love to have a pop at the fans at every given opportunity 

[Brian Johnson]

7 hours ago, andy jones said:

Brian

It's the other way round isn't it?

 It was, and remains, us that needed and still need her money to keep the club out of another administration.

According to Mike Baggaley's updates she is putting in a million a year isn't she?

Its both. We need someone putting money in and they also need the fans putting money.

By the way, it was not a pop at Carol, it was just a reply in context with to point someone on here was trying to make

[Brian Johnson]

6 hours ago, andy jones said:

Brian that will be welcomed by some posters as they will have even more opportunity to moan we haven't signed a striker.

Again mate, see my previous reply.

its not a pop at Carol just an observation to a post someone made.

[Packmoor_vale]

7 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

Yes because vale fans really want to see the club struggle and drop back into league 2. The striker issue is utterly ridiculous and I don’t think there is one vale fan happy with that situation. It’s a shame some posters love to have a pop at the fans at every given opportunity 

Some fans like myself would prefer to see the fans rallying around a club statement sticking together and doing our best at matches help them out of the mess they have put us in not turning there back on them like a few have said they will do 

[saintvaliant]

7 hours ago, andy jones said:

Brian

It's the other way round isn't it?

 It was, and remains, us that needed and still need her money to keep the club out of another administration.

According to Mike Baggaley's updates she is putting in a million a year isn't she?

That’s one way of looking at it.

Another way might be to explore why the club needs to have £1m injected to continue trading. I suspect paying off sacked managers and coaching staff, investing in grandiose off field facilities and having an on field product that is haemorrhaging customers probably don’t help. Nor does criticising those same customers for having the audacity to dare raise questions about the state of on field affairs.