1 hour ago, saintvaliant said:

That’s one way of looking at it.

Another way might be to explore why the club needs to have £1m injected to continue trading. I suspect paying off sacked managers and coaching staff, investing in grandiose off field facilities and having an on field product that is haemorrhaging customers probably don’t help. Nor does criticising those same customers for having the audacity to dare raise questions about the state of on field affairs.

The club had been run down for decades. We all agree the pitch needed investment to provide a viable surface. There are other stadium rectification investments of a similar nature that have been made and some even go to maintaining safety and certification. On the sporting side, people accept the player's training facilities needed improvement. Other improvements to the stadium have been directed at increasing off field income. Many of these investments are capital expenditure. Ok, yes, the cash has to be stumped up by owner investment or borrowing or leasing. But the charge to revenue is finance costs on one side of the balance sheet and depreciation of fixed assets on the other. It's write down overtime stuff, not fatally compromise the player wages budget now stuff. I see much of the capital investment as unavoidable. It's partly why there are not a lot of people wanting to buy the club. Carol bought a lemon because she loves the club

But clearly Port Vale has a fixed maximum size of budget. This is linked to the size of the fanbase. The fanbase is bigger than Crewe, about equal to Bristol Rovers and smaller than Barnsley. We are obviously only about a quarter the size of Derby County. We compete against a number of clubs of our size in L1, who all face the same financial viability challenge, to avoid relegation and stay in the league. Hence the budget we have causes us to duck and dive signing players. This causes the risks we now face where we have an unbalanced squad. At least we haven't got the old fart problem! We've got the too many too young problem maybe! An experienced manager should get them to step up effectively. 

Edited February 8, 20242 yr by Warren

1 hour ago, Warren said:

The defeat at Fleetwood was the final straw. The appointment of Crosby was plausible because he had lengthy coaching experience and been successful as caretaker manager in contributing to promotion. It was scary that result, because I thought we had enough in the squad to defeat Fleetwood and move back into mid table. So clearly a crisis arose and action was needed to replace the manager. We need an experienced manager to come in right now whilst the situation can still be arrested. 

However, after watching on Tuesday where we got battered by an upper mid table team, the transfer window does come full frontal. Midfield and wing backs, if we are going to play that system, are far too weak. In fact miles off it. Changing to my favoured formations of 433 or 4411 won't help either because that weak midfield elephant will still be in the room. A new manager will need to repurpose some of the players. For example, we lost all the physical battles in midfield and were not tackling the opposition allowing them to look like Man City in possession. Surely a new experienced manager would at least improve resilience. 

I have moaned about our strikeforce. But until injury Garrity was doing better than Harrison. Chislett can be made more effective. He's running round doing stuff in midfield trying to compensate for the weaknesses we now have there. The problem with the young player loans and bringing young players through is we don't know they are ready. And what we have now aren't ready for L1 level as mainstays of the side. But going back to Garrity, this injury is a mighty serious blow to him and us. We can't just go out and sign another player who will score his goals return. Yes I expect the budget does come into play. 

Things have gone awry. With hindsight better choices could have been made. I was pleased with the open letter. The decision being made now to appoint a new manager and staff is one of the most critical in the club's history. We need to stay in L1 or the economics of the club, difficult anyway, football clubs at our level always are, will, I believe, start to unravel. New ownership or new part ownership will be needed. Because you can't keep pumping money in to make viable what is unviable. 

I agree Warren with much of your post about the team but I can’t get past backing a manager, knowing he doesn’t have the players to compete, not recruiting the players required for him and after only 1 game sacking him. Smacks of chaos no planning or process.

It’s piss poor management and the fact the leadership team have we’ve not fronted I find disgusting.

Edited February 8, 20242 yr by MBE

Woke up this morning, still amazed at that letter yesterday.

That letter's certainly united the fan base but not in the way Carol was expecting.

Just now, MBE said:

I agree Warren with much of your but I can’t get past backing a manager, knowing he doesn’t have the players to compete, not recruiting the players required for him and after only 1 game sacking him. Smacks of chaos no planning or process.

It’s piss poor management and the fact the leadership team have we’ve not fronted I find disgusting.

I do think Crosby can be aggrieved by the recent window at least. He has been stripped naked! But we now need a manager with a magic wand and he hasn't got one. 

Reading a number of the posts it seems clear that there is a logical, fundamental message to the owners.

1.  Use the funds to get the best squad that delivers results in the best possible way.  This is called success on the pitch delivering progress, excitement, enjoyment, motivation and increased revenue through the gates.

2.  Use excess funds to improve the infrastructure.  (Score board, toilets, pitch, offices, training ground) etc.

The two are very clearly linked together. Get No 1 right and revenue increases through success that enables the funds for No 2.  Get No 1 wrong whilst focussing on No 2 then you have what we have today.

Surely every football club owner understands this connection ?

 

1 hour ago, Brian Johnson said:

Its both. We need someone putting money in and they also need the fans putting money.

By the way, it was not a pop at Carol, it was just a reply in context with to point someone on here was trying to make

I agree with that. Now is not the time for fans to be turning their backs. We should turn up in numbers and give Flitcroft maximum aggro. 

3 minutes ago, Warren said:

I do think Crosby can be aggrieved by the recent window at least. He has been stripped naked! But we now need a manager with a magic wand and he hasn't got one. 

Stripped naked 😂😂 my breakfast has just come up at the thought 

1 minute ago, TJHValiant said:

I agree with that. Now is not the time for fans to be turning their backs. We should turn up in numbers and give Flitcroft maximum aggro. 

Who needs that though? I try to take myself away from situations where I can feel myself getting angry at things I can't change. I used to go to football to get away from the stresses of life, hasn't been like that for a while.

Just now, Rampant Zebra said:

Who needs that though? I try to take myself away from situations where I can feel myself getting angry at things I can't change. I used to go to football to get away from the stresses of life, hasn't been like that for a while.

Fair point. Maybe my stress is too closely linked to football! 

6 minutes ago, PVP said:

Reading a number of the posts it seems clear that there is a logical, fundamental message to the owners.

1.  Use the funds to get the best squad that delivers results in the best possible way.  This is called success on the pitch delivering progress, excitement, enjoyment, motivation and increased revenue through the gates.

2.  Use excess funds to improve the infrastructure.  (Score board, toilets, pitch, offices, training ground) etc.

The two are very clearly linked together. Get No 1 right and revenue increases through success that enables the funds for No 2.  Get No 1 wrong whilst focussing on No 2 then you have what we have today.

Surely every football club owner understands this connection ?

 

Apparently not

4 minutes ago, MBE said:

Stripped naked 😂😂 my breakfast has just come up at the thought 

Don't choke on your porridge

8 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:

Woke up this morning, still amazed at that letter yesterday.

That letter's certainly united the fan base but not in the way Carol was expecting.

I think people just have to understand the place that it's come from, Carol is clearly angry and frustrated with the fans.

It must be soul destroying, I'd be amazed if she is really wants to carry on.

8 minutes ago, PVP said:

Reading a number of the posts it seems clear that there is a logical, fundamental message to the owners.

1.  Use the funds to get the best squad that delivers results in the best possible way.  This is called success on the pitch delivering progress, excitement, enjoyment, motivation and increased revenue through the gates.

2.  Use excess funds to improve the infrastructure.  (Score board, toilets, pitch, offices, training ground) etc.

The two are very clearly linked together. Get No 1 right and revenue increases through success that enables the funds for No 2.  Get No 1 wrong whilst focussing on No 2 then you have what we have today.

Surely every football club owner understands this connection ?

 

Exactly. Sadly we seem to have done it the opposite way round. 

5 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

Who needs that though? I try to take myself away from situations where I can feel myself getting angry at things I can't change. I used to go to football to get away from the stresses of life, hasn't been like that for a while.

The only social media I engage with is Onevalefan. I spend hours of my life talking about Port Vale. Many independent observers would think I'm mad. 

Edited February 8, 20242 yr by Warren

8 minutes ago, MBE said:

Stripped naked 😂😂 my breakfast has just come up at the thought 

At least we don’t have pie eating Evans! What a sight that would be 😍

Edited February 8, 20242 yr by Vtid