The definition of insanity.... (and how this relates to Andy Crosby)

[tommytunstall]

16 minutes ago, Warren said:

We lost v Middlesbrough by an unlucky deflection, bad mistake in possession at the back and letting a player come inside and shoot. We were lucky that Balmer didn't gift them more goals before the manager subbed him. 

The stats are we had 39% possession making 4 shots with 1 on target. That's not going to win games. But Middlesbrough need some credit. You could see they had good defenders and showed it in the way they blocked crosses off. They only made one big mistake and it was Massey who just couldn't keep down the hard hit cross reaching out close to the line. 

Middlesbrough dominated possession. 618 passes. What stood out for me watching from Lorne Street was they were technically superior by quite a distance in controlling and manipulating the ball. They also had better player movement in the team to receive the ball in play. They could play quicker than PV in possession because of these factors. 

Middlesbrough were happy to make sure PV didn't harm them and did this by simply keeping possession. But their attacking stats are 10 shots, 5 on target and 3 goals. So they were potent. 

I can't say whether their great superiority is simply better players with more talent. Or whether better coaching plays a significant part. What did strike me, and worry me a bit, is that Walters looked out of his depth when he came on. So the point I'm making is he would improve much quicker and to a higher level at Middlesbrough.

If we are going to keep the players we bringing through and progress as a club we need coaching to be at Championship level. I don't see that presently at team level or individual level. 

I cannot disagree with anything in this post Warren. What worries me is that we obviously have a cash problem, certainly going back to Januarys transfer window, if not beyond. 
 

Crosby was the cheap option to replace DC, personally I think we need to replace him, and also bring in key players at LB, LWB and Striker, but because the finance position is certainly no better now, we cannot do this. These are worrying times.

[Warren]

1 minute ago, tommytunstall said:

I cannot disagree with anything in this post Warren. What worries me is that we obviously have a cash problem, certainly going back to Januarys transfer window, if not beyond. 
 

Crosby was the cheap option to replace DC, personally I think we need to replace him, and also bring in key players at LB, LWB and Striker, but because the finance position is certainly no better now, we cannot do this. These are worrying times.

I guess we will see where we are as a club in Jan. 

[PV1973]

7 minutes ago, Warren said:

He could have looked out of his depth in a struggling team to be fair. But from the Lorne Street, where I get to watch the build up play from the back, Middlesbrough players were technically much better. Also defensively they bidded their time whilst PV players were running and doing tricky dicky stuff and then consistently tackled them. Hence we achieved nearly nothing in attack. There was a huge gulf in class between the teams. 

It was literally men against boys with Walters and that’s just how it is until he gets more experience.

As for the definition of insanity in us doing the same thing over and over with this system. I’m not convinced we have the ability in the players who are the left and right sided centre halves to be trying to play the way we do, with them bringing the ball out. I’d much prefer to see us at least playing with a striker to play off and us getting it wider quicker. Playing like we do cost us the second goal and could have been more with Balmer having a nightmare. 

[Warren]

Crosby as a manager was up against Michael Carrick last night. He's played at the highest level and has that level of knowhow. Woodgate as deputy has equally played at top level.

Crosby was a L1 player and has not coached or managed at their level. He simply can't have their experience and technical knowledge. I know we can point to Klopp and Mourinho who were not top players. But it's rare. 

What I am saying is Carrick and Woodgate can walk on the training pitch and show their players some stuff. Crosby hasn't got that at all. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Warren

[darren1810]

38 minutes ago, Warren said:

Crosby as a manager was up against Michael Carrick last night. He's played at the highest level and has that level of knowhow. Woodgate as deputy has equally played at top level.

Crosby was a L1 player and has not coached or managed at their level. He simply can't have their experience and technical knowledge. I know we can point to Klopp and Mourinho who were not top players. But it's rare. 

What I am saying is Carrick and Woodgate can walk on the training pitch and show their players some stuff. Crosby hasn't got that at all. 

Yet bizarrely Crosby was a typical lower league agricultural centre half who now wants his own defence to play at being Beckenbauer. 

[MBE]

15 hours ago, fuzzyvalefan said:

Well yes I have had a drink, many drinks but none since February. I am a recovering alcoholic and have been sober for 10 months so well done for making light of that. Even chaired my first AA meeting last week. I have also been to virtually every match this season and not a single drop of alcohol or any mind altering substance has been in my body for any of them. I suspect given your comment that you cannot say the same. So I would suggest my recollection of the season is pretty damn accurate. I invite you to re read my post and point out exactly what you disagree with. I don't post very often so this is a summary of my thoughts over the last few months so it's length is fairly reasonable. The irony is I suspect it's u who has embarrassed yourself when u re read the thread. But again, pick out the points you disagree with.

FuzzyValefan I just wanted to say congratulations on your hard work for 10 months. You should feel really proud of yourself.  Keep on the right path. 

All valid points from your OG post. 
 

[MelbourneValiant]

11 hours ago, Osh said:

Can you tell me if we were "atrocious" against Wigan on Saturday...??

Simple question.

I didn't watch. One game doesn't hide the fact we have been crap since the first ball was kicked at the start of the campaign.

[MBE]

9 hours ago, Emile said:

We have an u21's manager with an u21's mentality - play in a set way, attract good loanees and hope it results in enough points at the end of season to stay up whilst developing some of our own young players to turn a profit. DF said as much in his recent interview.

Nail on the head right here.

Nice club Port Vale.

 

[Wrex]

1 hour ago, Warren said:

Crosby as a manager was up against Michael Carrick last night. He's played at the highest level and has that level of knowhow. Woodgate as deputy has equally played at top level.

Crosby was a L1 player and has not coached or managed at their level. He simply can't have their experience and technical knowledge. I know we can point to Klopp and Mourinho who were not top players. But it's rare. 

What I am saying is Carrick and Woodgate can walk on the training pitch and show their players some stuff. Crosby hasn't got that at all. 

Pep, Artera, Kompany, Rob Edwards, Potterchino, Iriola and O'Niel had clearly superior playing careers to Crosby.

Klopp, Moyes, Marco Silva, Howe, Ten Haag, Di Serbia, Emery, Dyche, Ange, Wilder and Nuno didn't really have superior playing careers to Crosby.

Thomas Frank and Roy Hodgson never played professional football at all.

Carrick was a top Premier League footballer but hasn't proved himself in management yet. Mid-table with Middlesbrough in the Championship and beating us 3-0 isn't particularly impressive.

[smithie]

3 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

I cannot disagree with anything in this post Warren. What worries me is that we obviously have a cash problem, certainly going back to Januarys transfer window, if not beyond. 
 

Crosby was the cheap option to replace DC, personally I think we need to replace him, and also bring in key players at LB, LWB and Striker, but because the finance position is certainly no better now, we cannot do this. These are worrying times.

Genuinely interested to know the source of this information. 

[Wozza4England]

3 hours ago, WV said:

Have to disagree that walters looked out of his depth. 

I assume you weren’t there then because he was like a startled rabbit caught in the headlights.

[Playa Amodores]

Insanity, is me turning up at VP, expecting something different.

[Osh]

4 hours ago, fuzzyvalefan said:

Someone with experience and a bit of nous and savvy who knows how to play good football but also knows when you need to double down and get in oppositions faces.

Just realised that pretty much describes Darrell Clarke perfectly. I get Vale aren't a glamorous draw but we attracted Micky Adams, an experienced manager with several promotions on his Cv and that was with a board of directors nowhere near as good as what we have now.

At the end of the day there are only 92 football league manager jobs in the country. They are like goldust.

Interesting. There were times last year that people were complaining about DC and the fact that we were too nice and "didn't get in people's face enough"

Just an observation 

[Osh]

4 hours ago, Devine intervention said:

I'm.no expert on football but a manager who plays the same system over and over again is eventually going be found out .

A good teams manager can change a game while in is in progress and also change a system so that the team can get the better of the opposition .

Crosby is not a manager ,he is a coach .

Last night was the final straw he as been in charge long enough now to have made a difference the facts speak for themselves worst performing club in league 1 2023 .

Last night's performance has finished me off with him it was atrocious considering what was at stake .

He is the manager uts his job get them fired up .

There was no fire on that pitch last night 

Crosby out 

What was your previous impression of him four days previously...??

[Osh]

4 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

I cannot disagree with anything in this post Warren. What worries me is that we obviously have a cash problem, certainly going back to Januarys transfer window, if not beyond. 
 

Crosby was the cheap option to replace DC, personally I think we need to replace him, and also bring in key players at LB, LWB and Striker, but because the finance position is certainly no better now, we cannot do this. These are worrying times.

How do you know that he was the "cheap option" or is that just what you believe. 

By the way, what do you do for a living. ..??

The reason I ask is that AC was appointed by Carol. She (and Kevin) are successful business people; they will have extensive experience of spotting good managers in their business and promoting them. 

I'm just wondering what experience you have of appointing and managing managers to make your pronouncements...??